Speed Vs. Dollars

I ran the numbers on flying out to this year's NJC in the Mooney, and it actually is cost effective. Doesn't really save a lot, though, after you factor in the applicable hourly reserves. Maybe a couple hundred bucks, depending on how full Delta is. And it takes three times as long. :) I'll still do it, though, just for the fun of it. Definitely not a way for friends to try to save money on travel, though.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
My opinion hasn't changed. User fees need to be enacted to shift the burden off of the airlines. Guys like me need to pay for what we use instead of making the airlines pay for it.
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I'm not necessarily disagreeing and I'm not trying to derail your thread (PM me if ya want). I haven't lurked in awhile so I'm not familiar with your opinion (I suspect you've covered this a number of times based off your response.) I'm just curious from YOUR perspective as both an airline pilot and a GA owner what would be reasonable? I guess from my perspective as a GA pilot training to one day be where you are, I wouldn't be dissuaded from flying if I had a pay a small nominal fee everytime I got radar services on a per flight basis. Or would it be a surcharge percentage tacked on to fuel purchases? Or is it paying .99c/min to call 1-800-wx-brief? etc etc etc.

Obviously, it's all hypothetical and you could skin the user fee cat any number of ways, but I just asked you because you do the airline flying and also have branched out into ownership. The goal being what's fair for all without totally crushing GA like in other countries.
 
BaronPete said:
I'm not necessarily disagreeing and I'm not trying to derail your thread (PM me if ya want). I haven't lurked in awhile so I'm not familiar with your opinion (I suspect you've covered this a number of times based off your response.) I'm just curious from YOUR perspective as both an airline pilot and a GA owner what would be reasonable? I guess from my perspective as a GA pilot training to one day be where you are, I wouldn't be dissuaded from flying if I had a pay a small nominal fee everytime I got radar services on a per flight basis. Or would it be a surcharge percentage tacked on to fuel purchases? Or is it paying .99c/min to call 1-800-wx-brief? etc etc etc. Obviously, it's all hypothetical and you could skin the user fee cat any number of ways, but I just asked you because you do the airline flying and also have branched out into ownership. The goal being what's fair for all without totally crushing GA like in other countries.
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The official proposals that have been made over the years have focused on turbine equipment paying per-flight fees when using ATC services. That's the easiest way to do it, although I think piston needs to chip in also. I can't remember what the proposed amounts were. I'll have to go looking when I get home from the office.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
The official proposals that have been made over the years have focused on turbine equipment paying per-flight fees when using ATC services. That's the easiest way to do it, although I think piston needs to chip in also. I can't remember what the proposed amounts were. I'll have to go looking when I get home from the office.
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But Avgas is taxed which provides revenue. You can easily up that amount by a few cents and that should cover everyone which would essentially be a use tax. Creating another taxing scheme is not something I will support for obvious reasons.
 
When I was renting, I created an excel spreadsheet with all the airplanes I had access to. The spreadsheet had rental rates/ KTAS/ fuel burn (for the airplanes I had access to under dry agreements) then a cell with distance.

Each trip I could figure out which plane was the most beneficial for that trip.
 
Vector said:
But Avgas is taxed which provides revenue. You can easily up that amount by a few cents and that should cover everyone which would essentially be a use tax. Creating another taxing scheme is not something I will support for obvious reasons.
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I'm generally not a fan of gas taxes, because they don't do a good job of representing the burden being imposed on the system. I can do a cross-country at 9 gph in my Mooney, but a guy who flies a Bonanza, using the exact same governmental resources, will be doing 12 gph at about the same speed. Why should his tax burden be 33% higher? And it really gets screwed up when you look at multis.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
1968 M20C with updated panel and fuel bladders. Finished the pre-purchase inspection last week, and I'm having the seller fix a few small items that they found, so I should be picking it up either this weekend or the next, depending on whether they're done in time to have the title company get us the registration paperwork.

And just as another example of how great JC is, @PhilosopherPilot is going to do my checkout flight to make the insurance company happy. How many internet forums you know where people do that sort of thing for each other? Awesome.
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No FMS? No L/VNAV? You sure about this?
 
ATN_Pilot said:
I'm generally not a fan of gas taxes, because they don't do a good job of representing the burden being imposed on the system. I can do a cross-country at 9 gph in my Mooney, but a guy who flies a Bonanza, using the exact same governmental resources, will be doing 12 gph at about the same speed. Why should his tax burden be 33% higher? And it really gets screwed up when you look at multis.
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While it won't be a 100% solution, it will be about a 98% which is more than good for government work.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Sounds to be a pretty awful solution to me when it's just as easy to charge a per-flight tax on IFR flight plans.
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An IFR flight plan is not the only burden to the system. Finding a tax that accounts for every sub-group is sort of how we got to where we are today with our tax codes.
 
I just had an opportunity to come back for the weekend to the US and fly some GA (recurrent on the L-39)... the GA culture is unbelievably different in the US than in England. It was actually pretty awesome to see so much GA activity and fuel so cheap! Europe has choked the life out of GA, hopefully we still keep it reasonably priced.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
I'm generally not a fan of gas taxes, because they don't do a good job of representing the burden being imposed on the system. I can do a cross-country at 9 gph in my Mooney, but a guy who flies a Bonanza, using the exact same governmental resources, will be doing 12 gph at about the same speed. Why should his tax burden be 33% higher? And it really gets screwed up when you look at multis.
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1. I think the tax on fuel is about as fair as we are going to get as far as people paying their fair share. A 3gph difference is not much in the grand scheme of things.

2. GA already pays its fair share vs the airlines. The airlines pay significantly more (which they pass on to their customers), and they use significantly more of the system. GA uses significantly less and pays less. Asking GA to pay more makes me want to take a Cessna 150 over to the busiest major airport and do some touch and goes at 80mph. What's that Delta, need to go around again? I use a non-towered field, rarely use IFR, do use flight following, and generally am not a large burden to the system. I possibly pay more than my fair share because I burn 22gph in a light twin. Asking me to pay more, and I'm borrowing a friends C150 and heading to ATL.

3. IF, however, you are arguing that there should be an overhaul of the system as a whole, including REMOVAL of the fuel taxes, then I am willing to listen. The problem becomes how you intend to charge, and how it will be implemented... which tends to lead us back to the current system is about as fair as we are going to get.
 
We've had in-depth debates about this before. Not looking to do another one. Suffice it to say that I thoroughly disagree and you can search for the old threads as to why.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
We've had in-depth debates about this before. Not looking to do another one. Suffice it to say that I thoroughly disagree and you can search for the old threads as to why.
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I'll do a search and read through what has been written. I'll let you know if I change my mind, but it would be a tough sell.
 
Sapper said:
I'll do a search and read through what has been written. I'll let you know if I change my mind, but it would be a tough sell.
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If you find out what he has written concerning this, please circle back. I doubt I will change my mind unless I see numbers that shows that GA is not paying its fair share for use.
 
Vector said:
If you find out what he has written concerning this, please circle back. I doubt I will change my mind unless I see numbers that shows that GA is not paying its fair share for use.
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Oh, those numbers are incontrovertible.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
We've had in-depth debates about this before. Not looking to do another one. Suffice it to say that I thoroughly disagree and you can search for the old threads as to why.
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I think you should shoot a few approaches in a 182 over in the UK, and then see how your feel...
 
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