I have a question for those who have taken the ATP. I understand from the FAR's and from the opinion of others that the only airspeed restriction IN Class B is 250 under 10,000 (FAR 91.117). However, the ATP study guides have two questions with the answers reflecting 250 as a restriction IN Bravo specifically. I was hoping to get one of the questions when I took my ATP written to see what the FAA "answer" was, but did not. Has anyone who has taken the written gotten this question, and do you know what the "correct" answer was? Thanks.
Speed in Class B
- Thread starter 250blue
- Start date
moxiepilot
Well-Known Member
250blue said:
Sec. 91.117 - Aircraft speed.
(a) Unless otherwise authorized by the Administrator, no person may operate an aircraft below 10,000 feet MSL at an indicated airspeed of more than 250 knots (288 m.p.h.).
(b) Unless otherwise authorized or required by ATC, no person may operate an aircraft at or below 2,500 feet above the surface within 4 nautical miles of the primary airport of a Class C or Class D airspace area at an indicated airspeed of more than 200 knots (230 mph.). This paragraph (b) does not apply to any operations within a Class B airspace area. Such operations shall comply with paragraph (a) of this section.
(c) No person may operate an aircraft in the airspace underlying a Class B airspace area designated for an airport or in a VFR corridor designated through such a Class B airspace area, at an indicated airspeed of more than 200 knots (230 mph).
(d) If the minimum safe airspeed for any particular operation is greater than the maximum speed prescribed in this section, the aircraft may be operated at that minimum speed
meritflyer
Well-Known Member
250blue said:
Well you are correct in theory in that above 10,000 MSL you'd be able to operate at over 250 KIAS.
Unfortunately DEN and other class B airports that are above 10,000 MSL (I only know of DEN) you are still restricted to the 250 KIAS limitation regardless of the speed limitation at a specific altitude. I once read something about it but right now I am too lazy to look it up.
Alchemy
Well-Known Member
This was actually an interview question at my current employer. The answer they were looking for is that there is no speed restriction above 10,000 MSL in class B airspace. Occasionally I fly with a captain who gets all bent out of shape if I start accelrating above 250 on a Departure from DEN, DFW, etc before I exit the class B. I just chuckle to myself and slow the plane down for them to avoid the argument.
That's why I brought it up - I see it on interviews all the time and most interviewees say there is no restriction above 10,000. However the FAA ATP written leads you to believe otherwise, so I was wondering if there is a source specifically refering to Class B (other than 91.117 which you reall can't tell if they are refering to the 250 kts below 10K or just 250kts in B).
gredenko
Well-Known Member
When I was with my girl Sallie Mae back in flight school, this issue came up with us future CFIs. So, I grabbed the FAR/AIM and called the Denver FSDO and asked them what happens above 10k. They said that the "above 10" rule supercedes the Class B restriction, so you may exceed 250 while still in Class B up to whatever that ceiling is. I also called the boyz at Denver approach and they told me the exact same thing.
jdflight
Well-Known Member
Alchemy said:
Tis true. I had an argument about this with a fellow cfi just before we both interviewed. My interviewer asked me, and I quoted the argument, laughing. I also busted out my FARs to back it up. The interviewer sided with me. There is no restriction in B, only a general below 10K restriction.
250blue said:
Let's get one little detail straight here. The FAA does not publish answers to questions, correct? You must be talking about somebody's, perhaps some company's answer to the question, right?
I don't know exactly what the question in question is, or what the choices of answers are, so it's difficult to provide much analysis on that directly. However, in one of your posts above you allude to the existence of "275 knots" as one choice, which you said is incorrect. Indeed, 275 knots is not a speed limit for anything that I can think of, above, below, or within Class B, or above or below 10,000'.
Perhaps the question was written before the existence of Denver's Class B, or it does not consider the uniqueness of Denver's Class B (above 10,000'), or perhaps you're misreading the question. Or, and I can't imagine this ever happening,
perhaps the question is wrong.There is no speed restriction above 10,000'.
Class B airspace does not affect the preceding statement.
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TonyC said:I don't know exactly what the question in question is, or what the choices of answers are, so it's difficult to provide much analysis on that directly. However, in one of your posts above you allude to the existence of "275 knots" as one choice, which you said is incorrect. Indeed, 275 knots is not a speed limit for anything that I can think of, above, below, or within Class B, or above or below 10,000'.
Perhaps the question was written before the existence of Denver's Class B, or it does not consider the uniqueness of Denver's Class B (above 10,000'), or perhaps you're misreading the question. Or, and I can't imagine this ever happening,
There is no speed restriction above 10,000'.
Class B airspace does not affect the preceding statement.
Here are the questions and choices:
1.At what maximum indicated airspeed can a B-727 operate within Class B airspace without special ATC authorization?
A-230 knots.
B-250 knots.
C-275 knots.
2. What is the maximum indicated airspeed a reciprocating-engine-powered airplane may operate within Class B airspace?
A-180 knots.
B-230 knots.
C-250 knots.
250blue said:
My vote is for poor questions. If one assumes that all Class B airspace is below 10,000' MSL, then the choices are clear. Unfortunately, we know of an exception to that rule. However, if we attempt to complicate the question by considering the exception, none of the answers make sense.
Moral of the story - - don't read too much into the question.
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