Spartan School of Aeronautics
- Thread starter N940AM
- Start date
**DONOTDELETE**
New Member
hey N940, i'll be going there in july, class starts july 5 for me, i already have the general ed req for the assoc all i need now is my flying time, going through their bachelors program, seem like a good school, got some work partners up there that say it's a bit pricy, but pilots from there are hired because of the training they recieve from SSA. have you been accepted yet?
**DONOTDELETE**
New Member
n940 no i haven't got the chance, i'll be dropping by during spring break, i live in aus, tx so it's about 6-8 for me, are you going to be doing the BS degree program as well? That's what i'll be doing. you get the associates and then you do online course for a year and get a BS degree in Business Managment.
N940AM
New Member
Keith:
Yeah, that is what I will be doing as well. Seems like a pretty good idea to get the BS degree kind of makes you more employable with the airlines. I live in Omaha, NE so am looking foreward to the change of climate during the winter. Still waiting to hear back from SSA about admissions, hopefully soon.
Yeah, that is what I will be doing as well. Seems like a pretty good idea to get the BS degree kind of makes you more employable with the airlines. I live in Omaha, NE so am looking foreward to the change of climate during the winter. Still waiting to hear back from SSA about admissions, hopefully soon.
**DONOTDELETE**
New Member
that's cool, good luck to you, the interviews and what not are hard but it's great if you get in, we'll be livin the dream, here's my e-mail, let me know
PST407405@aol.com
PST407405@aol.com
N940AM
New Member
Keith,
That would be great to someday live out the dream. In the meantime best of luck and hopefully SSA was the correct choice. I wonder if Doug has ever met anyone at the airlines that went to SSA?
Anyway, keep me posted on your progress.
rgkjthurb@aol.com
That would be great to someday live out the dream. In the meantime best of luck and hopefully SSA was the correct choice. I wonder if Doug has ever met anyone at the airlines that went to SSA?
rgkjthurb@aol.com
GirlInTraining
New Member
One of my instructors went to SSA and I must say that he is one of the most thorough and competent pilots I have ever met. FWIW...
N940AM
New Member
Well, I was officially accepted a few weeks ago and have submitted all of my financial paperwork. So just waiting to hear back on that. I have picked up another job to try to save for that first year tuition payment and moving expenses. I am planning on visting sometime in April to make the final decision. If anyone has any info on SSA I would be glad to hear from you.
Ryan
Ryan
I recently moved from Tulsa to Dallas. However, I started my PPL license in Tulsa and my instructor is now working as a CFI at SSA. The school is EXCELLENT, but if you want to get a real perspective from someone who will be straightforward with you, email me and I'll pass along my friend's email. He's a graduate of SSA and he is one of the most knowledgeable CFIs I know. I've been on the line at SSA and their aircraft are in EXCELLENT condition. The majority of the planes at SSA are Single engine 152/172s, but they're in great shape. Hope this helps.
moxiepilot
Well-Known Member
RUN AWAY!
Seriously. This school has been going down the tubes ever since I started in 2001. I finally left due to the lack of flying and piss poor management.
The only time they ever perked up their ears was when you threatened them that you would spend your money somewhere else.
I have sooo many horror stories from them I don't even know where to begin. I still have buddies who attend there and encourage them every week to get out and put there money somewhere else.
I ended up going down the road to a local FBO, Stapleford which finished in 3 days what took spartan over 6 months to accomplish. It also cost me 1/3 the $$$.
If I spent the time and money some where else I have no doubt I would be much further in my career than I am today. However, they do teach the students well in a ground school, but you can get that quality from any good instructor or compitent program.
Seriously. This school has been going down the tubes ever since I started in 2001. I finally left due to the lack of flying and piss poor management.
The only time they ever perked up their ears was when you threatened them that you would spend your money somewhere else.
I have sooo many horror stories from them I don't even know where to begin. I still have buddies who attend there and encourage them every week to get out and put there money somewhere else.
I ended up going down the road to a local FBO, Stapleford which finished in 3 days what took spartan over 6 months to accomplish. It also cost me 1/3 the $$$.
If I spent the time and money some where else I have no doubt I would be much further in my career than I am today. However, they do teach the students well in a ground school, but you can get that quality from any good instructor or compitent program.
bjm
New Member
My Private CFI went to Spartan. I agree with the others who've had CFI's from there. He knew the stuff inside and out and was terrific with ground schools. I did my Private in 2001, so he was there before then. I looked into it somewhat, but having a degree already, it didn't make any sense to go there for 2 years when I could finish in 5-6 months elsewhere.
bullmastiff
New Member
[ QUOTE ]
RUN AWAY!
Seriously. This school has been going down the tubes ever since I started in 2001. I finally left due to the lack of flying and piss poor management.
The only time they ever perked up their ears was when you threatened them that you would spend your money somewhere else.
I have sooo many horror stories from them I don't even know where to begin. I still have buddies who attend there and encourage them every week to get out and put there money somewhere else.
I ended up going down the road to a local FBO, Stapleford which finished in 3 days what took spartan over 6 months to accomplish. It also cost me 1/3 the $$$.
If I spent the time and money some where else I have no doubt I would be much further in my career than I am today. However, they do teach the students well in a ground school, but you can get that quality from any good instructor or compitent program.
[/ QUOTE ]
I Agree 110% I wont bash the school publicly, but you are welcome to PM me. Honestly, they are the joke around here(Tulsa)
RUN AWAY!
Seriously. This school has been going down the tubes ever since I started in 2001. I finally left due to the lack of flying and piss poor management.
The only time they ever perked up their ears was when you threatened them that you would spend your money somewhere else.
I have sooo many horror stories from them I don't even know where to begin. I still have buddies who attend there and encourage them every week to get out and put there money somewhere else.
I ended up going down the road to a local FBO, Stapleford which finished in 3 days what took spartan over 6 months to accomplish. It also cost me 1/3 the $$$.
If I spent the time and money some where else I have no doubt I would be much further in my career than I am today. However, they do teach the students well in a ground school, but you can get that quality from any good instructor or compitent program.
[/ QUOTE ]
I Agree 110% I wont bash the school publicly, but you are welcome to PM me. Honestly, they are the joke around here(Tulsa)
mtsu_av8er
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
RUN AWAY!
Seriously. This school has been going down the tubes ever since I started in 2001. I finally left due to the lack of flying and piss poor management.
The only time they ever perked up their ears was when you threatened them that you would spend your money somewhere else.
I have sooo many horror stories from them I don't even know where to begin. I still have buddies who attend there and encourage them every week to get out and put there money somewhere else.
I ended up going down the road to a local FBO, Stapleford which finished in 3 days what took spartan over 6 months to accomplish. It also cost me 1/3 the $$$.
If I spent the time and money some where else I have no doubt I would be much further in my career than I am today. However, they do teach the students well in a ground school, but you can get that quality from any good instructor or compitent program.
[/ QUOTE ]
I Agree 110% I wont bash the school publicly, but you are welcome to PM me. Honestly, they are the joke around here(Tulsa)
[/ QUOTE ]
Remember, if you don't make the info public, somebody else might be unhappy....
That's what these threads are for!!!
[ QUOTE ]
RUN AWAY!
Seriously. This school has been going down the tubes ever since I started in 2001. I finally left due to the lack of flying and piss poor management.
The only time they ever perked up their ears was when you threatened them that you would spend your money somewhere else.
I have sooo many horror stories from them I don't even know where to begin. I still have buddies who attend there and encourage them every week to get out and put there money somewhere else.
I ended up going down the road to a local FBO, Stapleford which finished in 3 days what took spartan over 6 months to accomplish. It also cost me 1/3 the $$$.
If I spent the time and money some where else I have no doubt I would be much further in my career than I am today. However, they do teach the students well in a ground school, but you can get that quality from any good instructor or compitent program.
[/ QUOTE ]
I Agree 110% I wont bash the school publicly, but you are welcome to PM me. Honestly, they are the joke around here(Tulsa)
[/ QUOTE ]
Remember, if you don't make the info public, somebody else might be unhappy....
That's what these threads are for!!!
MissedApproach
Well-Known Member
It's a shame the school has gone down hill. My mentor went there; he's now a UPS 747 FO.
SkratchySeal
New Member
I just left the school prematurely in March.
The good:
-Federal and private financial aid available. VA benfefits accepted, also. When I was there, I received Federal Grants like the Pell Grant. I don't think many flight schools offer federal aid.
-2-year degrees available, and an option for a Bachelor degree
-Ground courses are thorough.
-Excellent maintaince crew. Their planes are very old, but in excellent shape. They even have the oldest active 152 in the world.
-They compete in NIFA. They have weekly meetings to hone their knowledge. Anyone can attend, even if they aren't chosen to participate in specific competitions. I hear that people who regularly attend these meetings raise their GPA a grade, so that's some good free knowledge.
-Free daily tutoring at one of their classrooms. I'm not sure if they still do that. Not many people were taking advantage of it, and I think the instructors doing the tutoring were volunteers. It sure beats paying your instructor, when you have that available to you.
-If you are a flight instructor there, you get major discounts for their degree courses, if you get an A or a B. You get other discounts too, like rentals. I don't know all their benefits, so I can't say more about this.
The bad:
-It might not be a big deal to some of you, but ground courses are non-stop. I mean that you may not even be close to your PPL and already be taking commercial ground courses. It's hard for working people to find the time to try to keep studying for PPL flight lessons and check rides, when all the school time is spent on commercial courses.
-They didn't let me sign up for the multi-engine option. I don't think many of the students there had the multi-engine option. Some of the instructors said it was best to do mullti-engine elsewhere, anyway.
-Sometimes, planes are not available for your scheduled flight, but it probably happens at a lot of schools. The problem is that most of their planes are 152's and if you are a tall or big person, you have to fly the 172's, which they don't have much of. You get cancelled a lot more if you fly 172's and I know of a couple of students who spent 1 or 2 months without flying. I flew the 152's and the longest I've been without flying is two weeks...that's only because of the weather and it was not their fault. I did get a couple of consecutive maintenence cancels, though.
-General education courses are expensive. You have the option not to take these course and just focus on flying. If you really want the Associate's, and have the time, take those course elsewhere, and if you don't graduate at another school, you can still transfer those credits over to Spartan. I really suggest going to a 4-year college if you have the time and you want the degree.
-They are not just a flight school, and let me say why that was a bad experience for me.
-I was a very gullible person. I was fresh out of high school back in 1999, and the only flight school I heard of was Spartan.The recruiter told me that I could not go to flight school because Spartan policies state that all their students must go through one of their technical programs first. He even said that if they had a policy to where students can choose flight school right off the bat, then all their other programs would die. Totally not true. Students can choose any program they want. Besides, I've met tons of students who had no interest in flight, and would rather do Avionics, AMP, Communications, or QC/NDT.
-It turns out that ground school is free for students who are attending the technical school. That's good, but I put it in the bad section because they didn't tell me until after I graduated from the technical school. How convenient! I no longer qualify for free ground school!
-After technical school, they urged me to go to the bachelor program first, and then flight. Well, after I received my bachelor, I found out I am no longer eligible for Federal Grants that I received while at the technical school.
-Not alot of the students experience these lies and run-arounds because they went to Spartan just for flight, but I know two other flight students who took technical courses first, that had some of this happened to them.
-I've been debating putting this in, but I feel it's not a matter of opinion. They have a lot of students from China, and a lot of the staff do not like working with them. It is understandable, because the communication between the student and the instructor is hard. HOWEVER, everyday, I would hear derogatory comments from some of the students, and even worse...the staff. When I was taking bachelor courses, a lot of my classmates were Spartan flight instructors. I was sitting in Business Ethics and one of the students was doing a presentation on abortion. A flight instructor sitting behind said that he wish Chinese people were aborted. I also could not take hearing my ground instructor crack jokes about the Chinese when I have Asian-American classmates sitting right there in the classroom, or when I'm walking down the hall and I hear comments and jokes. I know one student who left for that reason. However there are many staff members, who I truly respect to this day.
That's all I can think of for now.
The good:
-Federal and private financial aid available. VA benfefits accepted, also. When I was there, I received Federal Grants like the Pell Grant. I don't think many flight schools offer federal aid.
-2-year degrees available, and an option for a Bachelor degree
-Ground courses are thorough.
-Excellent maintaince crew. Their planes are very old, but in excellent shape. They even have the oldest active 152 in the world.
-They compete in NIFA. They have weekly meetings to hone their knowledge. Anyone can attend, even if they aren't chosen to participate in specific competitions. I hear that people who regularly attend these meetings raise their GPA a grade, so that's some good free knowledge.
-Free daily tutoring at one of their classrooms. I'm not sure if they still do that. Not many people were taking advantage of it, and I think the instructors doing the tutoring were volunteers. It sure beats paying your instructor, when you have that available to you.
-If you are a flight instructor there, you get major discounts for their degree courses, if you get an A or a B. You get other discounts too, like rentals. I don't know all their benefits, so I can't say more about this.
The bad:
-It might not be a big deal to some of you, but ground courses are non-stop. I mean that you may not even be close to your PPL and already be taking commercial ground courses. It's hard for working people to find the time to try to keep studying for PPL flight lessons and check rides, when all the school time is spent on commercial courses.
-They didn't let me sign up for the multi-engine option. I don't think many of the students there had the multi-engine option. Some of the instructors said it was best to do mullti-engine elsewhere, anyway.
-Sometimes, planes are not available for your scheduled flight, but it probably happens at a lot of schools. The problem is that most of their planes are 152's and if you are a tall or big person, you have to fly the 172's, which they don't have much of. You get cancelled a lot more if you fly 172's and I know of a couple of students who spent 1 or 2 months without flying. I flew the 152's and the longest I've been without flying is two weeks...that's only because of the weather and it was not their fault. I did get a couple of consecutive maintenence cancels, though.
-General education courses are expensive. You have the option not to take these course and just focus on flying. If you really want the Associate's, and have the time, take those course elsewhere, and if you don't graduate at another school, you can still transfer those credits over to Spartan. I really suggest going to a 4-year college if you have the time and you want the degree.
-They are not just a flight school, and let me say why that was a bad experience for me.
-I was a very gullible person. I was fresh out of high school back in 1999, and the only flight school I heard of was Spartan.The recruiter told me that I could not go to flight school because Spartan policies state that all their students must go through one of their technical programs first. He even said that if they had a policy to where students can choose flight school right off the bat, then all their other programs would die. Totally not true. Students can choose any program they want. Besides, I've met tons of students who had no interest in flight, and would rather do Avionics, AMP, Communications, or QC/NDT.
-It turns out that ground school is free for students who are attending the technical school. That's good, but I put it in the bad section because they didn't tell me until after I graduated from the technical school. How convenient! I no longer qualify for free ground school!
-After technical school, they urged me to go to the bachelor program first, and then flight. Well, after I received my bachelor, I found out I am no longer eligible for Federal Grants that I received while at the technical school.
-Not alot of the students experience these lies and run-arounds because they went to Spartan just for flight, but I know two other flight students who took technical courses first, that had some of this happened to them.
-I've been debating putting this in, but I feel it's not a matter of opinion. They have a lot of students from China, and a lot of the staff do not like working with them. It is understandable, because the communication between the student and the instructor is hard. HOWEVER, everyday, I would hear derogatory comments from some of the students, and even worse...the staff. When I was taking bachelor courses, a lot of my classmates were Spartan flight instructors. I was sitting in Business Ethics and one of the students was doing a presentation on abortion. A flight instructor sitting behind said that he wish Chinese people were aborted. I also could not take hearing my ground instructor crack jokes about the Chinese when I have Asian-American classmates sitting right there in the classroom, or when I'm walking down the hall and I hear comments and jokes. I know one student who left for that reason. However there are many staff members, who I truly respect to this day.
That's all I can think of for now.
moxiepilot
Well-Known Member
Scratchy - thanks for taking the time to put in your 2 cents. I agree with your observations and assement of SSA as a whole.
To elaborate on the good and the bad...
The good:
The financial aid you can receive is EXCELLENT compared to many flight schools. However, their aid is based on minimum flight hours for the flight school and I know of no one that has finished any rating (except maybe multi) in minimums. The recruitment department fails to mention this to perspective students - ESPECIALLY students who don't know what questions to ask because they don't know what questions to be asking. Tough catch 22, but it got me good in a bad way...
I would recommend getting a college degree somewhere else, even if that means online with the University of Phoenix. It is financially prudent and you'll learn more somewhere else.
I agree the gound school is excellent. That is a strength of the school.
The school's maintenence might be excellent but half the fleet is never flying due to either scheduling or maintenence. For a student to be in an accellerated program and to not fly for 2 weeks to 2 months is not an accellerated program. I switched from SSA where I flew almost 8 hours a month - on a good month to another training school where I fly MINIMUM 8 hours a week sometimes upwards of 20.
-They compete in NIFA. Always a good thing.
The daily tutoring is shaky at best. While going through my CFI training, I was offered the opportunity to tutor, which I think is excellent for both student and tutor. The friction is from the fact the instructors see tutor time as $ being taken from them if it is being done for free. I don't disagree with the instructors. Imagine you were hired flying only a few hours and could make ends meet with an hour or two of tutoring - but a future CFI is doing it for free. That puts a rift between students and instructors.
The bad:
-It might not be a big deal to some of you, but ground courses are non-stop..
The ground school is the schools strength. Running them every 19 days is grand, as long as your flying maintains pace with the curriculum, which it does not. Since financial aid is based on credit hours, if your flying does not maintain pace with ground school, you will find yourself out of money for BOTH flying and groundschool. That's not good, that's why many students drop out.
Multi engine you can do 1/3 the cost at either Robinson at RVS or - I would recommend - Stapleford at RVS.
I left for lack of flight scheduling. There are horror stories - as you point out some people not flying for two months. Students need to ask themselves how long they want to train. If your at Spartan from no time to CFI expect 3 and a half years. That isn't an exaguration.
[ QUOTE ]
-I was a very gullible person. I was fresh out of high school back in 1999, and the only flight school I heard of was Spartan.The recruiter told me that I could not go to flight school because Spartan policies state that all their students must go through one of their technical programs first. He even said that if they had a policy to where students can choose flight school right off the bat, then all their other programs would die. Totally not true. Students can choose any program they want. Besides, I've met tons of students who had no interest in flight, and would rather do Avionics, AMP, Communications, or QC/NDT.
[/ QUOTE ]
Their sales staff is one of the best in the industry and that is not a good thing. Many students feed slighted that they were told one thing or another that is an untruth in order to hook the sale. To say the least they lie well.
[ QUOTE ]
-I've been debating putting this in, but I feel it's not a matter of opinion. They have a lot of students from China, and a lot of the staff do not like working with them. It is understandable, because the communication between the student and the instructor is hard. HOWEVER, everyday, I would hear derogatory comments from some of the students, and even worse...the staff. When I was taking bachelor courses, a lot of my classmates were Spartan flight instructors. I was sitting in Business Ethics and one of the students was doing a presentation on abortion. A flight instructor sitting behind said that he wish Chinese people were aborted. I also could not take hearing my ground instructor crack jokes about the Chinese when I have Asian-American classmates sitting right there in the classroom, or when I'm walking down the hall and I hear comments and jokes. I know one student who left for that reason. However there are many staff members, who I truly respect to this day.
[/ QUOTE ]
This has become one of their largest issue I think I has to contend with. The Chinese are BIG money for the school to keep it out of the financial red zone. Let me re-emphasize this...
The international contracts are BIG money for the school. They take priority over the domestic students no matter what any administrator says. The instructors are paid more money by taking on Chinese contract students from $12/hr to $16 and are REQUIRED by the contract to finish the student in 8 months.
I'll try to post more later, but I got hit by the hurricane & am at the airport using their system since I have no power...
-moxie
To elaborate on the good and the bad...
The good:
The financial aid you can receive is EXCELLENT compared to many flight schools. However, their aid is based on minimum flight hours for the flight school and I know of no one that has finished any rating (except maybe multi) in minimums. The recruitment department fails to mention this to perspective students - ESPECIALLY students who don't know what questions to ask because they don't know what questions to be asking. Tough catch 22, but it got me good in a bad way...
I would recommend getting a college degree somewhere else, even if that means online with the University of Phoenix. It is financially prudent and you'll learn more somewhere else.
I agree the gound school is excellent. That is a strength of the school.
The school's maintenence might be excellent but half the fleet is never flying due to either scheduling or maintenence. For a student to be in an accellerated program and to not fly for 2 weeks to 2 months is not an accellerated program. I switched from SSA where I flew almost 8 hours a month - on a good month to another training school where I fly MINIMUM 8 hours a week sometimes upwards of 20.
-They compete in NIFA. Always a good thing.
The daily tutoring is shaky at best. While going through my CFI training, I was offered the opportunity to tutor, which I think is excellent for both student and tutor. The friction is from the fact the instructors see tutor time as $ being taken from them if it is being done for free. I don't disagree with the instructors. Imagine you were hired flying only a few hours and could make ends meet with an hour or two of tutoring - but a future CFI is doing it for free. That puts a rift between students and instructors.
The bad:
-It might not be a big deal to some of you, but ground courses are non-stop..
The ground school is the schools strength. Running them every 19 days is grand, as long as your flying maintains pace with the curriculum, which it does not. Since financial aid is based on credit hours, if your flying does not maintain pace with ground school, you will find yourself out of money for BOTH flying and groundschool. That's not good, that's why many students drop out.
Multi engine you can do 1/3 the cost at either Robinson at RVS or - I would recommend - Stapleford at RVS.
I left for lack of flight scheduling. There are horror stories - as you point out some people not flying for two months. Students need to ask themselves how long they want to train. If your at Spartan from no time to CFI expect 3 and a half years. That isn't an exaguration.
[ QUOTE ]
-I was a very gullible person. I was fresh out of high school back in 1999, and the only flight school I heard of was Spartan.The recruiter told me that I could not go to flight school because Spartan policies state that all their students must go through one of their technical programs first. He even said that if they had a policy to where students can choose flight school right off the bat, then all their other programs would die. Totally not true. Students can choose any program they want. Besides, I've met tons of students who had no interest in flight, and would rather do Avionics, AMP, Communications, or QC/NDT.
[/ QUOTE ]
Their sales staff is one of the best in the industry and that is not a good thing. Many students feed slighted that they were told one thing or another that is an untruth in order to hook the sale. To say the least they lie well.
[ QUOTE ]
-I've been debating putting this in, but I feel it's not a matter of opinion. They have a lot of students from China, and a lot of the staff do not like working with them. It is understandable, because the communication between the student and the instructor is hard. HOWEVER, everyday, I would hear derogatory comments from some of the students, and even worse...the staff. When I was taking bachelor courses, a lot of my classmates were Spartan flight instructors. I was sitting in Business Ethics and one of the students was doing a presentation on abortion. A flight instructor sitting behind said that he wish Chinese people were aborted. I also could not take hearing my ground instructor crack jokes about the Chinese when I have Asian-American classmates sitting right there in the classroom, or when I'm walking down the hall and I hear comments and jokes. I know one student who left for that reason. However there are many staff members, who I truly respect to this day.
[/ QUOTE ]
This has become one of their largest issue I think I has to contend with. The Chinese are BIG money for the school to keep it out of the financial red zone. Let me re-emphasize this...
The international contracts are BIG money for the school. They take priority over the domestic students no matter what any administrator says. The instructors are paid more money by taking on Chinese contract students from $12/hr to $16 and are REQUIRED by the contract to finish the student in 8 months.
I'll try to post more later, but I got hit by the hurricane & am at the airport using their system since I have no power...
-moxie
yes sir, i couldnt agree more with you,,,,,,,on the school,,,i attended early in the 1995 school year and only lasted half way through their program,,,due to finding out certain aspects of their school and the way they were running it,,,,,very shady indeed,,,having moved my entire family from California to the Tulsa OK area to attend this school,,,,,having just gotten out of the Air Force at the time,,,,,,this whole situation at the time was nothing more than a compilation of contraverseries and lack of accurate and timely information,,,,no one in my class finished the program at that time,,,and id love to speak with them,,,,,,we need to get more of this information on the school online in hopes that former students wether good or bad can voice those concerns,,,,if there are more questions on this matter i will give you my E-mail address,,,,,,,thanks,,,,,,,,,,,,,,