CFIT99
I'm probably commenting ironically...
I’ve heard similar stats, interested to hear the stats on who volunteered vs voluntold to go to HIMS
Southwest pilot arrested in SAV
- Thread starter Puckgoalie
- Start date
I agree, in part. Yes, with a substance abuse disorder, the brain associates the drug with a survival. Without the drug, the brain thinks it cannot survive.
However, the decision to sit in that seat and fly with people in the back is a choice. He could have called in sick. Does he need help? Absolutely. But there are certain things that should be a 'never' event in a career. One of those is flying while intoxicated. To attempt to do so demonstrates a gross lack of judgment that one is impaired, or careless disregard if one is aware of just how impaired one happens to be.
I can have compassion for him as a person, and can have empathy regarding his illness. I struggle to have empathy for his lack of judgement. People with substance abuse disorders often relapse. This could happen again if he's given a second chance.There have to be consequences for this. I don't think he should be able to fly commercially again.
Exactly. Fantastic way of putting it. I absolutely want an environment to exist where people can seek help for addiction, but he crossed a line that simply can’t be crossed. There need to be ways to get help so it never gets to that point.
FlyingAccountant
Well-Known Member
Yeah, so what are the legalities here in terms of his certificates? Is it just, he declined the blood draw, that's the bullet in the head of his career or does he get some sort of due process beyond that? Is there any way back for him?
The FAA database seems to suggest all of his tickets were invalidated and Southwest has stated he was terminated.
Its interesting though - at one point in the video, one of the cops mentions it had been reported that he had been drinking until 4AM and it was obviously early in the morning in the video, so this took place not much longer after that. I wonder if one of his crew reported him? If the TSA had reported him to law enforcement, how would they have known what he was doing before he got to the airport?
DeltaAlphaNovember
Well-Known Member
Yes there are a lot of options to get help for drug/alcohol addiction out there. The issue is most people that have an addiction do not seek the help because they feel like they do not have a problem. Until it is a problem. Be it a DUI or whatever.
Back before HIMS came about people would never fly again. There is a book that I've yet to read, but its the story of a pilot that had an alcohol addiction and eventually went back to flying and he went through hell to get back in the flight deck.
As far as the volunteer vs. voluntold, I am of the opinion that it is more voluntold due to a DUI or failed random drug screen. Either one gets reported to the FAA and it's an immediate loss of medical and in some cases loss of all your tickets.
Back before HIMS came about people would never fly again. There is a book that I've yet to read, but its the story of a pilot that had an alcohol addiction and eventually went back to flying and he went through hell to get back in the flight deck.
As far as the volunteer vs. voluntold, I am of the opinion that it is more voluntold due to a DUI or failed random drug screen. Either one gets reported to the FAA and it's an immediate loss of medical and in some cases loss of all your tickets.
CFIT99
I'm probably commenting ironically...
Nothing you’re saying a disagree with BUT
Missing a huge point…you’re assuming that him losing his career, putting lives at danger, or anything bad happening was a factor in his decision making.
The disease told him, you won’t feel good till you do this and will convince him to justify it for any reason …everything else isn’t just a factor …it doesn’t exist.
This isn’t justification for him to get back in the seat after his treatment, additionally he should be reprimanded to the fullest.
But to assume he chose directly to ignore his role has Captain and mover of people, isn’t being honest for what his motivation is.
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That being said if he was just on a bender or having a bad week…none of the above applies.
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🦈💜
Well-Known Member
Broseph, I know you have anger issues, but please stop eating the cagers.
🦈💜
Well-Known Member
We dramatically overemphasize alcohol and intoxication in our culture, and most compatible cultures. Wine with dinner, bar as a "third place" to hang out. Minis in the hotel rooms . . . hell, my parents are musicians, and people will buy them drinks or offer them whisky between sets.
Sailing? Have a couple beers. (Even racing!)
Hanging out? Gotta drink. Watching football? Gotta drink. Sports game? Beer. Working on mechanical projects? Beer.
I don't drink anymore, at all. It made my body feel horrible, when I did.
Current medical consensus is that no amount of alcohol improves health outcomes, and any amount of alcohol can contribute to negative health outcomes.
Does it really, truly, genuinely add to the social experience, or are we, collectively, all just a little bit psychologically / socially dependent on it?
Sailing? Have a couple beers. (Even racing!)
Hanging out? Gotta drink. Watching football? Gotta drink. Sports game? Beer. Working on mechanical projects? Beer.
I don't drink anymore, at all. It made my body feel horrible, when I did.
Current medical consensus is that no amount of alcohol improves health outcomes, and any amount of alcohol can contribute to negative health outcomes.
Does it really, truly, genuinely add to the social experience, or are we, collectively, all just a little bit psychologically / socially dependent on it?
Soul Brotha'
Off to go do Black guy stuff
@DeltaAlphaNovember I think you are referring to Lyle Prouse. Amazing story about addiction, recovery and finding a way back to the cockpit.
While I can’t give specifics but the overall experience is most know they have a problem but are afraid to speak up. Volunteering for help takes courage and many feel that they will be perceived as weak. It’s the complete opposite of that. It’s a program that know one will know that you’re in unless you tell them. Seeking help shows strength and you will be shown love and appreciation for doing it.
Also there is a road back to the cockpit for individuals like this guy. Yes the FAA takes away everything. You will have to start from student pilot to get all your certifications and licenses back. I know of at least 3 guys who lost it all and are at SWA, AA and UA flying now. I am still learning about addiction and how the mind works. An addict will do a lot to get their fix and will cross many moral lines that we know is wrong.
While I can’t give specifics but the overall experience is most know they have a problem but are afraid to speak up. Volunteering for help takes courage and many feel that they will be perceived as weak. It’s the complete opposite of that. It’s a program that know one will know that you’re in unless you tell them. Seeking help shows strength and you will be shown love and appreciation for doing it.
Also there is a road back to the cockpit for individuals like this guy. Yes the FAA takes away everything. You will have to start from student pilot to get all your certifications and licenses back. I know of at least 3 guys who lost it all and are at SWA, AA and UA flying now. I am still learning about addiction and how the mind works. An addict will do a lot to get their fix and will cross many moral lines that we know is wrong.
I’m sure this is true but it rings a little hollow when I hear “even that glass of Chianti with your pasta is killing you!” when there’s god knows what microplastics probably floating around in my brain, or whatever I’ve been breathing in from being around airplanes for the last 20 years. I will say it seems like the social pressure to partake is a LOT less now than even in the recent past, which is a good thing. Driving even after one beer at a barbecue just isn’t worth risking everything for.
🦈💜
Well-Known Member
Not disagreeing with this at all; they are separate concepts in my view.
In other words, it's "AND", not "OR", just like smoking, radiation exposure, working with toxic chemicals, sedentary lifestyle, overworking, insufficient sleep, and so on.
That's encouraging to hear. I think the upcoming generation may be driving that based on exposure to the consequences of excess, but that's just a wild guess.
BEEF SUPREME
Well-Known Member
Thinking 7-10K+ would most likely make a big difference for me anyway, during the coming economic fall out and churn at my place of employment.
For now a set of narrow tires for the 29 hardtail is just fine.
JDean3204
Well-Known Member
I learned to drink in the world’s greatest janitorial service, otherwise known as the Navy. I spent years of drinking to the wins, the losses, the sunshine, the rain and pretty much anything and everything that I thought required a celebratory beverage or three. I’d be lying if I said it didn’t have an effect on my life, that combined with immature decisions and also my ego in my early to mid 20’s.
Back in 2022, I just had enough, just turned 34 and tired of feeling like all things in life deserved a drink. I’ve stopped ever since and have zero regrets. Even when I’m that guy drinking a club soda with lime trying to be social with other people needing a drink to unwind. I honestly think I won’t need a drink ever again, but if I do I bet it will be a cheap buzz lol!
Kingairer
'Tiger Team' Member
I probably drink 3 or 4 times a year now days. With all the other things I try to do, it seems counter to that to drink on a consistent basis.
From a legal standpoint, I would think a good lawyer would be able to bring up the problems with doing a field test in an angled, multi layered, jetbridge.
From a legal standpoint, I would think a good lawyer would be able to bring up the problems with doing a field test in an angled, multi layered, jetbridge.
I’m going to go ahead and disagree.
You can drink a beer, hop in your car and easily get a DUI. Should that person no longer be employable?
It’s not as easy as “Oh I got busted, I’ll just go into HIMS”, you have to be accepted into the program, it’s a hard and it certainly isn’t a slap on the wrist and back to flying in a couple weeks. It’s a year-plus and your entire life changes.
Murdoughnut
Well sized member
FUI, yes. DUI? I think anyone who drinks can get one DUI. If you go back for a second, then that’s a different story.
Let’s look at Europe. The drinking age is lower but the penalties for drinking and driving are higher (and the threshold is lower). They don’t have the odd approach to alcohol (or sex or THC) that we do.
Someone could probably drink “a” beer, hop in a car, be below even most European BAC limits, and get a DUI charge. I’d highly doubt it would stick if there was a blood draw. This is why the quacks in OKC need to butt out of arrest records and why a conviction absolutely should be career-ending material in my mind.
FlyingAccountant
Well-Known Member
From what I can tell, he hasn't been prosecuted for it, yet. Makes me wonder if he was actually over the limit.
bike21
9-5 Ruins Lives
Anything is a gravel bike if you want to be.
N+1 coming shortly for me, planning to go back to a proper park bike next season along with a shorter travel rig for bikepacking. Currently on a GG Smash and it does well at lots of things, but a bit too jack of all trades for me.
And that new gravel rig hopefully. Don't think I've done a 3 bike season before, but whatevs. Gotta sell two bikes at least. So 3-2 = only 1 new bike right? Right?!