Southwest 1st Day at LGA a failure

Ahhh, the beauty of block or better.....no skin off my back if I can't get a shortcut :) (except on the last leg of the trip :p , not that I don't try the rest of the time if we're behind)
 
joliet said:
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That's awesome!!!!!
 
kellwolf said:
Hell, I'm happy for BWG or BNA. Besides, isn't SPKER only a few miles from LTOWN anyway? :)

As for SWA, they get about as much special treatment (in my experience) as FedEx, NWA, Delta, Pinnacle, etc. I have yet to first hand see any kind of special treatment. I HEAR a lot about it, but never seen it myself. I also HEAR we're close to a pilot contract, but I've been hearing that for over 3 years now.
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Honestly, it's so far out of my airspace, I have no idea. All I know is SPKER from PXV west you'll easily get it, LTOWN or WLDER, memphis pitches a fit.
 
Polarbear said:
I cannot comment from a tower perspective, but from a center perspective in which we blend traffic/start spacing for almost every major airport in the central to eastern US, here is one perspective:

Facts-

1. Southwest almost always flies at or very close to their maximum forward airspeeds.... This usually makes them faster. Faster plane in front gets there quicker.

2. They ask for shortcuts more than any other pilot group...

3. They rarely ask for impossible short cuts(i.e. direct MDW when landing at MDW)...


4. In slowing an aircraft down to let another aircraft in front...... To do this soley by company would be somewhat impossible, if not dangerous. My sectors constantly average 8-12 aircraft at a time with 20-25 durring peak times. To keep from falling behind, a good controller can only do two things to sequence aircraft: the faster guy stays in front or the closer guy is in front. Meaning in a distance tie the faster guy is definitely going first. In a speed tie, the closest is going first. Speeds, vectors, and shortcuts are given in respect. Now there are more factors we could spend all day talking about, but that is the simplest way to figure it out. Also the closer you get to the airport the more distance plays a factor and the more likely you are slowed down. If you rearrainge the sequence any other way your going down the craphole faster than Alice went through the rabbit hole. The only way you would risk that is if there is a priority(i.e. emergency, lifegaurd, possibly min fuel, etc). Nowhere in the 7110.65 or any other regulating document have I seen Southwest listed as a priority, therefore I don't know a single controller who would risk his career for southwest.

Hopefully this gives a controller's perspective on the issue.
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Now that's an explanation that I can buy into. I especially dig #4 - I hope people read it over again and try to wrap their heads around the fact that there is only so much that ATC can do without screwing themselves over.

Bottom line the way that I read it is that Soutwest consistently does some things that match ATC's needs, thus they get the plum when there's a choice to be made. Otherwise it's all based on position and speed.

Thanks.
 
SteveC said:
Bottom line the way that I read it is that Soutwest consistently does some things that match ATC's needs, thus they get the plum when there's a choice to be made. Otherwise it's all based on position and speed.
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I'd be interested to hear a ground controller chime in. It *seems* that in Philly and BNA (the only two places I am most often that have SWA coverage) even if we are closer to an intersection we are almost ALWAYS told to give way to Southwest. Granted, 9 times out of 10 they taxi WAY faster than we do so that may have something to do with it.
 
BobDDuck said:
if we are closer to an intersection we are almost ALWAYS told to give way to Southwest. Granted, 9 times out of 10 they taxi WAY faster than we do
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There's your answer,

Ground knows that SWA will haul booty around the corner and get out of everyone's way, therefore they get to go first.

Meanwhile an AA MD80 is moving about the same speed as an old man with a walker, and they have to wait till the end of the line.
 
Besides LGA, I can't recall any destination that SWA operates into that is a true high volume terminal area - ATL, ORD, JFK, etc.

So yes, it's a little bit easier for them to keep the N1 pegged at 20% during the taxi coming out of the mid-sized Class C and D airspace.

Which, since that's what they're use to doing since that must be their SOP, they don't know how to properly taxi into a line for a proper sequence out of our nation's busiest terminal area (N90).

That said. . .

SWA is still the most bad ass airline out there. Tan cowboy boots and all.
 
surreal1221 said:
Besides LGA, I can't recall any destination that SWA operates into that is a true high volume terminal area - ATL, ORD, JFK, etc.

So yes, it's a little bit easier for them to keep the N1 pegged at 20% during the taxi coming out of the mid-sized Class C and D airspace.
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PHL?
 
mikecweb said:
PHL?
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Toss it in there. . .but Philly falls into the New York terminal mess so. . .eh.

While I'm no expert of Southwest route model, I'd be willing to bet they operate into more class c and d airspace than class b airspace - thus they're accustomed to operating a certain way without really too much concern for flow times or EDCTs.
 
How dare you! phx was one busy ass place when I was a new pilot! I sounded like studdering John when I first flew out of there.
 
Gonzo said:
As someone who has flown it all of those airports and ORD, DFW, MIA.

SFO is the most craziest place I have ever flown.
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I've never actually flown a 121 aircraft into SFO, but I'm in the jumpseat of one in to or out of there every 14 days or so. Except for one slam dunk approach into OAK on SWA I can't say I ever felt like it was crazy. Busy? Yeah, sure, but everything was flowing VERY orderly.

The one caviot to all that is I've never flown in or out on a day where it was really fogged in or had heavy weather. Just really gusty winds once.
 
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