Some possible interview questions!
- Thread starter mrivc211
- Start date
davetheflyer
New Member
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Remember that we call minimums (and you should be too) about 50' higher to allow for conversational delay
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I'm not sure that I agree. The miss should be initiated at DA. Therefore the A/C will go below the DA on any miss initiated at the DA due to lag time between calling for the miss and adding power. This is legal, and there have been a couple of approaches that I would have missed if I had initiated the miss above the DA.
For interview information specific to each airline, check out airlineinterviews.com. I found this site very helpful.
Remember that we call minimums (and you should be too) about 50' higher to allow for conversational delay
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure that I agree. The miss should be initiated at DA. Therefore the A/C will go below the DA on any miss initiated at the DA due to lag time between calling for the miss and adding power. This is legal, and there have been a couple of approaches that I would have missed if I had initiated the miss above the DA.
For interview information specific to each airline, check out airlineinterviews.com. I found this site very helpful.
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From what I've heard, announcing "going missed" to the controller pretty much takes care of the situation.
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How is that going to take care of the situation? That's going to do nothing more than get you in trouble.
You don't just assume the pilot is sick at the controls. Not everything is black and white.
Two winters ago flying into Boston. I was landing runway 4R with 1800 RVR and winds 110@31G42. At DH the NFP (the FO) calls missed approach. I took a look and had the lights, so I said "have the lights, reset DH to 100 above." The FO says I don't see anything, go missed and starts flipping out. By the time he finishes his statement, we're at 100 above and I have the runway environment in sight and proceed to land.
When I looked up to check the view just before DH, I noticed the FO was looking for the runway straight out his window. We had at least a 30 degree crab in for the wind.. He wasn't going to see anything straight out his window except cloud and maybe the Atlantic ocean.
It's the captains responsibility to see everything, hear everything, and be attune to everything. Most of people responding to this question are not even at the regional level yet and many of you would fight for the controls at 200 feet. All that's going to do is get you and your passengers early trips to your grave.
The correct interview answer to this question is "I would follow the proceduers in your company manual."
From what I've heard, announcing "going missed" to the controller pretty much takes care of the situation.
[/ QUOTE ]
How is that going to take care of the situation? That's going to do nothing more than get you in trouble.
You don't just assume the pilot is sick at the controls. Not everything is black and white.
Two winters ago flying into Boston. I was landing runway 4R with 1800 RVR and winds 110@31G42. At DH the NFP (the FO) calls missed approach. I took a look and had the lights, so I said "have the lights, reset DH to 100 above." The FO says I don't see anything, go missed and starts flipping out. By the time he finishes his statement, we're at 100 above and I have the runway environment in sight and proceed to land.
When I looked up to check the view just before DH, I noticed the FO was looking for the runway straight out his window. We had at least a 30 degree crab in for the wind.. He wasn't going to see anything straight out his window except cloud and maybe the Atlantic ocean.
It's the captains responsibility to see everything, hear everything, and be attune to everything. Most of people responding to this question are not even at the regional level yet and many of you would fight for the controls at 200 feet. All that's going to do is get you and your passengers early trips to your grave.
The correct interview answer to this question is "I would follow the proceduers in your company manual."
DE727UPS
Well-Known Member
During interviews you are sometimes asked questions that have no right answer. The interviewer can take the opposite track you choose and see how you respond. Just saying "I'll do what the company procedures are", is a good first response. But most interviewers will keep digging to see what you would really do.
In real life, I wouldn't take the controls away from the Capt close to the ground but I'd be screaming go around on the voice recorder...repeatedly. If the Capt was unresponsive, I'd assume the controls.
One interesting side note. We have in our company procedues that F/O's won't hand fly an approach if the RVR is less than 4000. Also, Capts "normally" must fly all approaches if the RVR is less the 4000 RVR but can allow the F/O the approach if he is familiar with the F/O and feels it's safe to do so. The F/O would have to use the autopilot....he can't do it hand flown. We don't use the autopilots for approaches, anymore, because we have the heads up display for the Capts. I don't trust the approach couplers, either, as I've seen too many crazy things with those old approach couplers in the 727.
This rule is often overlooked by the Capts I fly with. Maybe they are all just comfortable with me but I'm not supposed to hand fly with less than 4000 RVR. If I bring it up they just look at me funny like "what are you talking about".
In real life, I wouldn't take the controls away from the Capt close to the ground but I'd be screaming go around on the voice recorder...repeatedly. If the Capt was unresponsive, I'd assume the controls.
One interesting side note. We have in our company procedues that F/O's won't hand fly an approach if the RVR is less than 4000. Also, Capts "normally" must fly all approaches if the RVR is less the 4000 RVR but can allow the F/O the approach if he is familiar with the F/O and feels it's safe to do so. The F/O would have to use the autopilot....he can't do it hand flown. We don't use the autopilots for approaches, anymore, because we have the heads up display for the Capts. I don't trust the approach couplers, either, as I've seen too many crazy things with those old approach couplers in the 727.
This rule is often overlooked by the Capts I fly with. Maybe they are all just comfortable with me but I'm not supposed to hand fly with less than 4000 RVR. If I bring it up they just look at me funny like "what are you talking about".
IrishSheepdog
Sitting in the median
[ QUOTE ]
Remember that we call minimums (and you should be too) about 50' higher to allow for conversational delay.
[/ QUOTE ]
Uh, no. I'll be calling minimums AT minimums. That would be when the altimeter reads the DA for the approach, and/or when "DH" starts flashing really big in my EADI display when I set the radio altimeter DA height.
The minimums take into account the go-around. The minimums are not a "hard floor" which you cannot bust.
Do you call V1 10 knots prior to V1, to allow for the conversational delay? No.
Remember that we call minimums (and you should be too) about 50' higher to allow for conversational delay.
[/ QUOTE ]
Uh, no. I'll be calling minimums AT minimums. That would be when the altimeter reads the DA for the approach, and/or when "DH" starts flashing really big in my EADI display when I set the radio altimeter DA height.
The minimums take into account the go-around. The minimums are not a "hard floor" which you cannot bust.
Do you call V1 10 knots prior to V1, to allow for the conversational delay? No.
Kingairer
'Tiger Team' Member
To answer teh tiller question. In the ERJ we transfer controls as soon as the capt has alligned the nose on teh centerline. the FP has controls from 0kts. makes it nice...Also in the ERJ and im sure on most other planes we have this bold voice that does altitude callouts and also APPROACHING MINIMUMs...then MINIUMUMS MINIMUMS....so if you cant figure out with 2 people saying mins, thne somethings wrong.
Mr_Creepy
Well-Known Member
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Do you call V1 10 knots prior to V1, to allow for the conversational delay? No.
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Not at 10, but at 5 kts prior to V1, V1 is called. This is a standard FAA procedure for turboprops and turbojets to avoid dangerous hi-speed aborts.
Matt, you have stated some controversial procedures here on this forum. Have you checked with your training department for the approved company policy before you posted these procedures? They might not agree with you!
I know you are an exceptional pilot to be where you are with such low time, but please, make sure you always keep that learning ear open! I learn DAILY from pilots with less than half my total time.
And Dave, going below DA on a missed approach is a possible violation. FAR 91.175 is very clear about the requirements for continuing below minimums. If you continue below minimums for any reason you could be called on to justify that decision.
I promise you that NO FAA Inspector will ever ding you for initiating procedures slightly before DA to err on the side of safety.
Now I am not just talking out of my butt here, we discuss these items at FSDO and Check-Airman meetings and the answer is always: "When in doubt, follow the letter of the regulation and err on the side of safety."
I've been giving ATP check rides since 1998 and I've never gone wrong by sticking to this philosophy.
Do you call V1 10 knots prior to V1, to allow for the conversational delay? No.
[/ QUOTE ]
Not at 10, but at 5 kts prior to V1, V1 is called. This is a standard FAA procedure for turboprops and turbojets to avoid dangerous hi-speed aborts.
Matt, you have stated some controversial procedures here on this forum. Have you checked with your training department for the approved company policy before you posted these procedures? They might not agree with you!
I know you are an exceptional pilot to be where you are with such low time, but please, make sure you always keep that learning ear open! I learn DAILY from pilots with less than half my total time.
And Dave, going below DA on a missed approach is a possible violation. FAR 91.175 is very clear about the requirements for continuing below minimums. If you continue below minimums for any reason you could be called on to justify that decision.
I promise you that NO FAA Inspector will ever ding you for initiating procedures slightly before DA to err on the side of safety.
Now I am not just talking out of my butt here, we discuss these items at FSDO and Check-Airman meetings and the answer is always: "When in doubt, follow the letter of the regulation and err on the side of safety."
I've been giving ATP check rides since 1998 and I've never gone wrong by sticking to this philosophy.
IrishSheepdog
Sitting in the median
[ QUOTE ]
Not at 10, but at 5 kts prior to V1, V1 is called. This is a standard FAA procedure for turboprops and turbojets to avoid dangerous hi-speed aborts.
Matt, you have stated some controversial procedures here on this forum. Have you checked with your training department for the approved company policy before you posted these procedures? They might not agree with you!
I know you are an exceptional pilot to be where you are with such low time, but please, make sure you always keep that learning ear open! I learn DAILY from pilots with less than half my total time.
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A) V1 is V1. Period.
B) Controversial procedures? Please, provide examples. I do not post any procedures that are other than the approved company procedures. If you misunderstand something I write, then please, question it and I will provide an explanation. But I do not just "make stuff up." Everything I say on here is straight out of the books. I am a very "by the book" kind of pilot. It is agreed that everyone has a particular technique, but it's just that... technique. Procedures are procedures, and they should be followed. And following procedures, I will call V1 AT V1, and call "Minimums" AT minimums. Not before, not after. This is because it is how it is supposed to be done. Calling V1 early, or calling DH early, is stepping above the published procedures. I am sitting here going through my manuals and the SWA manuals, and for some reason I can't find any reference to the standard FAA procedure of calling V1 early. Happen to have an FAR to cite?
C) I keep the learning ear open. The day I stop is the day I retire. We all never stop learning, no matter what stage we are at in our careers. I learn from pilots with lower time than I, and learn from pilots with higher time than I. I am probably more open to constructive criticism than most. But to come on here, post a questionable procedure, then claim that it is I who is posting bullsh*t; well that just doesn't fly with me.
I don't make things up and post them here. If I post something I can back it up. If I don't know something, I say, "I don't know." Or, I just keep my mouth shut, listen, and learn.
Not at 10, but at 5 kts prior to V1, V1 is called. This is a standard FAA procedure for turboprops and turbojets to avoid dangerous hi-speed aborts.
Matt, you have stated some controversial procedures here on this forum. Have you checked with your training department for the approved company policy before you posted these procedures? They might not agree with you!
I know you are an exceptional pilot to be where you are with such low time, but please, make sure you always keep that learning ear open! I learn DAILY from pilots with less than half my total time.
[/ QUOTE ]
A) V1 is V1. Period.
B) Controversial procedures? Please, provide examples. I do not post any procedures that are other than the approved company procedures. If you misunderstand something I write, then please, question it and I will provide an explanation. But I do not just "make stuff up." Everything I say on here is straight out of the books. I am a very "by the book" kind of pilot. It is agreed that everyone has a particular technique, but it's just that... technique. Procedures are procedures, and they should be followed. And following procedures, I will call V1 AT V1, and call "Minimums" AT minimums. Not before, not after. This is because it is how it is supposed to be done. Calling V1 early, or calling DH early, is stepping above the published procedures. I am sitting here going through my manuals and the SWA manuals, and for some reason I can't find any reference to the standard FAA procedure of calling V1 early. Happen to have an FAR to cite?
C) I keep the learning ear open. The day I stop is the day I retire. We all never stop learning, no matter what stage we are at in our careers. I learn from pilots with lower time than I, and learn from pilots with higher time than I. I am probably more open to constructive criticism than most. But to come on here, post a questionable procedure, then claim that it is I who is posting bullsh*t; well that just doesn't fly with me.
I don't make things up and post them here. If I post something I can back it up. If I don't know something, I say, "I don't know." Or, I just keep my mouth shut, listen, and learn.
IrishSheepdog
Sitting in the median
One more thing about V1. When I'm saying AT V1, I mean saying it so the word "one" is completed as the airspeed indicator is right on the V1 airspeed. Just so there's not "confusion."
DE727UPS
Well-Known Member
What we do at my company.
V1 is called slightly early so that the call is complete at the V1 speed.
The minimums call is "at decision height" (assume a CAT1 ILS) This is read from the FAA approved UPS B727 Pilot Training Guide.
Tenny...is making the call 50 feet above minimums something you think is a good idea (techinque) or something that's written down somewhere?
We are supposed to say "approaching minimums" at 100 feet above mins and "minimums" at mins. I can promise you that if I made the approaching mins call at 100 above, followed by a mins call 50 feet later, it would be a negative debrief item. I could tell the instructor that I was trying to be extra safe, or I could tell him that Tenny told me that's the way I should do it (after all, you did say that). The instructor would say I was wrong because neither of those answers are in our book and neither of them are the way we train.
V1 is called slightly early so that the call is complete at the V1 speed.
The minimums call is "at decision height" (assume a CAT1 ILS) This is read from the FAA approved UPS B727 Pilot Training Guide.
Tenny...is making the call 50 feet above minimums something you think is a good idea (techinque) or something that's written down somewhere?
We are supposed to say "approaching minimums" at 100 feet above mins and "minimums" at mins. I can promise you that if I made the approaching mins call at 100 above, followed by a mins call 50 feet later, it would be a negative debrief item. I could tell the instructor that I was trying to be extra safe, or I could tell him that Tenny told me that's the way I should do it (after all, you did say that). The instructor would say I was wrong because neither of those answers are in our book and neither of them are the way we train.
mrivc211
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
From what I've heard, announcing "going missed" to the controller pretty much takes care of the situation
[/ QUOTE ]
Make sure you read the question carefully.........this is an uncontrolled field! There is no controller.
And secondly, even if there was, so what? right? It's your as* on the line, not to mention who knows how many behind you.
The best way I could answer this question would be:
#1 Never fight the captain for the controls
#2 Make sure you are clearly making your intentions heard. Yell go around clearly many times!
#3 If he's going to continue the approach with or without you, you may as well help him down as best you can. It's either fight him for the controls at 200'AGL or try to land the thing with two experts at the controls as a team. Which would you pick? Doesn't make either one right, but when these are the only two options, the second option sounds better than the first.
From what I've heard, announcing "going missed" to the controller pretty much takes care of the situation
[/ QUOTE ]
Make sure you read the question carefully.........this is an uncontrolled field! There is no controller.
And secondly, even if there was, so what? right? It's your as* on the line, not to mention who knows how many behind you.
The best way I could answer this question would be:
#1 Never fight the captain for the controls
#2 Make sure you are clearly making your intentions heard. Yell go around clearly many times!
#3 If he's going to continue the approach with or without you, you may as well help him down as best you can. It's either fight him for the controls at 200'AGL or try to land the thing with two experts at the controls as a team. Which would you pick? Doesn't make either one right, but when these are the only two options, the second option sounds better than the first.
B767Driver
New Member
Takeoff Decision Speed...interesting name for V1...because that's not at all what V1 is. A more appropriate name for V1 would be Takeoff Action Speed. The decision to reject a takeoff must be made significantly prior to V1. Even the physical process of rejecting the takeoff (throttles idle, etc, etc,) must be intiated prior to V1. At V1...the airplane does not meet the performance requirements to stop; at least not on the runway.
As most airplanes are accelerating towards V1 at the speed of heat...it is a common technique (even procedure at some airlines) to annunciate V1 5 to 10 kts prior to V1.
I've posted here before...my thoughts on just how critical this regime of flight is.
I'm not familiar with any operator calling minimums early. I do feel as though there is some controversy regardling flight at MDA, however. Some pilots/operators insist on flying 50' or so above MDA so they do not bust the altitude during the course of the approach. As a former check airman who has given many type rides in liason with the FAA...I would like to comment that the MDA was meant to be flown at MDA. Minor deviations below MDA and immediately correctable are not unsatisfactory...consistently flying above MDA is.
As most airplanes are accelerating towards V1 at the speed of heat...it is a common technique (even procedure at some airlines) to annunciate V1 5 to 10 kts prior to V1.
I've posted here before...my thoughts on just how critical this regime of flight is.
I'm not familiar with any operator calling minimums early. I do feel as though there is some controversy regardling flight at MDA, however. Some pilots/operators insist on flying 50' or so above MDA so they do not bust the altitude during the course of the approach. As a former check airman who has given many type rides in liason with the FAA...I would like to comment that the MDA was meant to be flown at MDA. Minor deviations below MDA and immediately correctable are not unsatisfactory...consistently flying above MDA is.
junkstream
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Make sure you read the question carefully.........this is an uncontrolled field! There is no controller.
[/ QUOTE ]
Just because the field is uncontrolled does not mean the crew is not talking to a TRACON or ARTCC. They may have switched to advisory, but may also have an approach or en route facility in their other radio.
That was not an invalid answer just because the approach is to an uncontrolled field.
I think it was said before that the interviewer(s) is/are looking for your reasoning and thought process on this one. There may not be a "right" answer. For my money, I think the best answer was the one that said, "whatever your SOP says to do."
Some airlines have the two challenge rule. If you challenge the other pilot twice with no response, you MUST assume they're incapacitated and you MUST take control of the airplane and lock their shoulder harness.
Good dialogue.
Make sure you read the question carefully.........this is an uncontrolled field! There is no controller.
[/ QUOTE ]
Just because the field is uncontrolled does not mean the crew is not talking to a TRACON or ARTCC. They may have switched to advisory, but may also have an approach or en route facility in their other radio.
That was not an invalid answer just because the approach is to an uncontrolled field.
I think it was said before that the interviewer(s) is/are looking for your reasoning and thought process on this one. There may not be a "right" answer. For my money, I think the best answer was the one that said, "whatever your SOP says to do."
Some airlines have the two challenge rule. If you challenge the other pilot twice with no response, you MUST assume they're incapacitated and you MUST take control of the airplane and lock their shoulder harness.
Good dialogue.
Mr_Creepy
Well-Known Member
FAR 91.175 states you will not continue below minimums unless certain conditions are met.
"But your honor, we called the miss right at DA and we sunk 50' low as a natural result of the delay in communication. It's not OUR fault that we hit that cell tower."
VIOLATION at the very least!
As for the call prior to V1 - Matt you said it yourself, you begin the call 5-10 kts prior so you finish the call at V1. Next time say what you mean. You said "I call V1 at V1. Not Before."
The FAA Guidelines in Sect. 8400 are kind of hard to sift through, but I will do it when I get back to a high speed connection and find the paragraphs that refer to DA and V1. I will post them here.
DE727 - nope "Tenney said" will not work too well on a check ride! I've tried it - didn't work
Let me paraphrase the 8400 from memory if I can:
V1 is now called Takeoff Safety Speed. It is a complicated definition but basically it is a COMMITMENT to continue the takeoff when reaching this speed. Any aborts must be initiated BEFORE the V1 call is initiated (yes BEFORE 5-10 kts prior.) Anytime after the "vuv" for V1 is leaving your lips the words "abort" on the CVR will be convicting.
FAA Inspectors and Analysts are focusing on many key areas lately, and high speed aborts is in there with runway incursions, CFIT, accidents with instructors on board, accidents with two instructors on board, and CRM issues to name but a few.
I know that in "real life" dropping a little below mins or doing an abort a knot or two past V1 will not cause a problem most of the time. I'm talking about critical situations, like check rides for example. If you have an FAA Inspector on board giving you a line check would you do an abort 5 kts past V1? Dip below mins to "have a look?" I kind of doubt it.
"But your honor, we called the miss right at DA and we sunk 50' low as a natural result of the delay in communication. It's not OUR fault that we hit that cell tower."
VIOLATION at the very least!
As for the call prior to V1 - Matt you said it yourself, you begin the call 5-10 kts prior so you finish the call at V1. Next time say what you mean. You said "I call V1 at V1. Not Before."
The FAA Guidelines in Sect. 8400 are kind of hard to sift through, but I will do it when I get back to a high speed connection and find the paragraphs that refer to DA and V1. I will post them here.
DE727 - nope "Tenney said" will not work too well on a check ride! I've tried it - didn't work
Let me paraphrase the 8400 from memory if I can:
V1 is now called Takeoff Safety Speed. It is a complicated definition but basically it is a COMMITMENT to continue the takeoff when reaching this speed. Any aborts must be initiated BEFORE the V1 call is initiated (yes BEFORE 5-10 kts prior.) Anytime after the "vuv" for V1 is leaving your lips the words "abort" on the CVR will be convicting.
FAA Inspectors and Analysts are focusing on many key areas lately, and high speed aborts is in there with runway incursions, CFIT, accidents with instructors on board, accidents with two instructors on board, and CRM issues to name but a few.
I know that in "real life" dropping a little below mins or doing an abort a knot or two past V1 will not cause a problem most of the time. I'm talking about critical situations, like check rides for example. If you have an FAA Inspector on board giving you a line check would you do an abort 5 kts past V1? Dip below mins to "have a look?" I kind of doubt it.
B767Driver
New Member
[ QUOTE ]
Let me paraphrase the 8400 from memory if I can:
V1 is now called Takeoff Safety Speed. It is a complicated definition but basically it is a COMMITMENT to continue the takeoff when reaching this speed. Any aborts must be initiated BEFORE the V1 call is initiated (yes BEFORE 5-10 kts prior.) Anytime after the "vuv" for V1 is leaving your lips the words "abort" on the CVR will be convicting.
[/ QUOTE ]
I thought V2 was Takeoff Safety Speed. Has there been a change?
Let me paraphrase the 8400 from memory if I can:
V1 is now called Takeoff Safety Speed. It is a complicated definition but basically it is a COMMITMENT to continue the takeoff when reaching this speed. Any aborts must be initiated BEFORE the V1 call is initiated (yes BEFORE 5-10 kts prior.) Anytime after the "vuv" for V1 is leaving your lips the words "abort" on the CVR will be convicting.
[/ QUOTE ]
I thought V2 was Takeoff Safety Speed. Has there been a change?
B767Driver
New Member
[ QUOTE ]
FAR 91.175 states you will not continue below minimums unless certain conditions are met.
"But your honor, we called the miss right at DA and we sunk 50' low as a natural result of the delay in communication. It's not OUR fault that we hit that cell tower."
VIOLATION at the very least!
[/ QUOTE ]
FAR 1.1 states the definition of Decision Height. It is the height with respect to a precision approach that a decision must be made to as to continue the approach or execute a missed approach.
Instrument Rating PTS FAAS8081-4 states that upon arrival at DH the pilot must immediately transition to the missed approach segment if visual cues are not established. It does not list a minimum altitude to fly (as it does per the non-precision approaches +100' / - 0').
This is my understanding of how an ILS approach should be flown...it's how I was taught, how I taught and what I observe daily in airline flying. The pilot should fly the localizer and glideslope, staying entirely on the gages until arrival at DH/DA. Upon arrival at DH/DA, the pilot should look out the window to establish visual cues. If visual cues are in sight...take over visually and land. If visual cues are not in sight...immediately establish a missed approach. Whatever descent occurs below DA/DH during the decision making process...is acceptable. Of course, this decision must be made in a timely manner...it would not be acceptable to descen 100' below DA/DH without visual cues...however, 20' to 50' is entirely acceptable...and of course will depend upon the type of airplane being flown.
It would be undesirable to level off at DA/DH prior to looking out the window because if visual cues are established the pilot would have destabilized the aircraft potentially setting up a poor transition to landing from the DA/DH.
FAR 91.175 states you will not continue below minimums unless certain conditions are met.
"But your honor, we called the miss right at DA and we sunk 50' low as a natural result of the delay in communication. It's not OUR fault that we hit that cell tower."
VIOLATION at the very least!
[/ QUOTE ]
FAR 1.1 states the definition of Decision Height. It is the height with respect to a precision approach that a decision must be made to as to continue the approach or execute a missed approach.
Instrument Rating PTS FAAS8081-4 states that upon arrival at DH the pilot must immediately transition to the missed approach segment if visual cues are not established. It does not list a minimum altitude to fly (as it does per the non-precision approaches +100' / - 0').
This is my understanding of how an ILS approach should be flown...it's how I was taught, how I taught and what I observe daily in airline flying. The pilot should fly the localizer and glideslope, staying entirely on the gages until arrival at DH/DA. Upon arrival at DH/DA, the pilot should look out the window to establish visual cues. If visual cues are in sight...take over visually and land. If visual cues are not in sight...immediately establish a missed approach. Whatever descent occurs below DA/DH during the decision making process...is acceptable. Of course, this decision must be made in a timely manner...it would not be acceptable to descen 100' below DA/DH without visual cues...however, 20' to 50' is entirely acceptable...and of course will depend upon the type of airplane being flown.
It would be undesirable to level off at DA/DH prior to looking out the window because if visual cues are established the pilot would have destabilized the aircraft potentially setting up a poor transition to landing from the DA/DH.
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