soft field/ short field landing advice

N

Ngrossman

Well-Known Member
hey guys,

I just soled a couple of weeks ago and due to some scheduling issues were now just getting to soft and shirt field landings and i need some advice on an issue i seem to have with short fields and something i'm wondering about soft fields. how much power do you normally have your students bump in right before landing if you have your students do it at all? Second i'm wondering if anyone has any advice about hitting your touchdown point for short fields? i can hit my aiming point all day long but i seem to continually float 2-3 ft past my point of touchdown and im looking for advice on ho to bring it down on my point.

Nelson
 
Ngrossman said:
how much power do you normally have your students bump in right before landing if you have your students do it at all?
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None. I have them add a bit of power after the mains touch in order to lower the nosewheel.

Second i'm wondering if anyone has any advice about hitting your touchdown point for short fields? i can hit my aiming point all day long but i seem to continually float 2-3 ft past my point of touchdown and im looking for advice on ho to bring it down on my point.
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I'm a little confused as to your problem. For a private, you're allowed to be as much as 200 ft past your point of intended touchdown. If you're only 2-3 ft past it, you're doing ok. ;)

Assuming that I've misunderstood your problem, the most reliable technique is to intentionally set up to land slightly short and add just a touch of power in ground effect to keep you floating down the runway. Chop the power right before you want to touch down.
 
my instructor told me that id be ok if i floated 2-3 but i don't wanna take the chance with a super strict DPE i just wanna nail the point so there is no question did i land short or float you know what i mean i guess i just take a lot of pride in being the best i can be. so if i understand you correctly it'd be to extend either my downwind or move my aiming point further away from my intended point of touchdown?
 
What are you flying?

This is a major problem in the Katana and it all stems from improper airspeed on final. 52 knots for a short field, not the 60-65 that everyone tries to fly. If you are flying something else strictly apply 1.3 Vso and you will probably have better results.
 
Ngrossman said:
move my aiming point further away from my intended point of touchdown?
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That. In my view, this is the only way to be able to hit a precise spot in all wind conditions. Even if you don't use the technique I suggested, this is still the solution to your float, along with ensuring you have the proper airspeed.

I don't agree with your instructor that +300 ft is acceptable performance. Yes, a random examiner might give it to you, but that isn't the standard you should train from. Two hundred feet is about the length of a stripe and the empty space just beyond it.
 
what about the katana makes it such a problem? I've never flown one so i'd have to assume that they are hard to slow down?
 
Just make sure you are on speed coming down final, don't get low, and make sure you touch down just above your stall speed.


If you say your approach speed is 61 KIAS, then make sure you fly 61, not 70. That will help immensly. I know alot of people that fly the profile great until the end and forget to pull the power and get a resulting float that sends them way beyond the point. I always used the second stripe as my aiming point, and I taught it that way because when people say the numbers, or close to the end of the runway, they would get a subcounsious "I dont want to land short" and generally that would result in them either flying higher than needed, or keeping power in too long and then carrying that excess speed into the flare.


Be on speed, and dont forget to pull the power, I was an advocate of gradual power pull once you get closer to the grass at the end, instead of just a yank. It allows you to judge your descent rate and speed a little better, but that is technique. Remember you dont want to touch down at 61 KIAS.
 
bdhill1979 said:
This is a major problem in the Katana and it all stems from improper airspeed on final. 52 knots for a short field, not the 60-65 that everyone tries to fly.
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Yea, 60-65 will make your student push the nose wheel into the ground, before anything else is ready. I've seen a few "wheel forks" with minor cracks, I'm assuming because of this. Fun plane. I miss it. I used cruise at 120+ KIAS for > 4 hrs, land, and taxi off the runway on the 2nd taxiway, runway 9, KAHN at the beginning of the 1,000' marker. Fun piece of plastic.
 
Ngrossman said:
at eastern we fly the 172 the book says 61 knots on short final for short field
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1.3 vs is 43 knots. Now I wouldn't recommend going that low, but I wouldn't see a problem with slowing to 50-55 on short (200 feet or lower) final to eliminate floating problems. Loosing that extra 5-10 knots before you get into ground effect can drastically reduce, if not completely eliminate, float.

Note: For soft fields, using this technique may require a slight bump of power but the power is situational, pitch back is generally sufficient.
 
On a side note, I was ferrying a plane that had just undergone MX for a busted nosewheel back from the other side of the state one time. I did my best soft field landing ever, mainly because I wasn't 100 % sure about the structural stability of the wheel. That mentality can help too.


Ever since that my soft fields have been good.

Just food for thought.
 
Crockrocket94 said:
On a side note, I was ferrying a plane that had just undergone MX for a busted nosewheel back from the other side of the state one time. I did my best soft field landing ever, mainly because I wasn't 100 % sure about the structural stability of the wheel. That mentality can help too.


Ever since that my soft fields have been good.

Just food for thought.
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I basically tell my students the same thing, that the nosewheel is broken. I even show them the video of that JetBlue Scarebus that had the nosewheel problem. Then have them practice wheelie touch and gos, the nose wheel never comes down. They learn pretty fast that if they don't give up control of the airplane, it is pretty easy.
 
shdw said:
1.3 vs is 43 knots. Now I wouldn't recommend going that low, but I wouldn't see a problem with slowing to 50-55 on short (200 feet or lower) final to eliminate floating problems. Loosing that extra 5-10 knots before you get into ground effect can drastically reduce, if not completely eliminate, float.

Note: For soft fields, using this technique may require a slight bump of power but the power is situational, pitch back is generally sufficient.
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Try using CAS instead of IAS...then converting back to IAS for the speed to fly.
 
Thank you roger and tgray, I feel like a noobie now, I knew that. Had a little deja vu reading that, remember my descent rate calculations...
 
tgrayson said:
And it took great strength of character to avoid reminding you of that...:)
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Primacy at work, in my private training I did calculations off of IAS. One of a few things I still fight with to this day as can be clearly seen.
 
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