So you want a job at Delta

mxflyer said:
I've never felt uncomfortable on a UAL jumpseat.
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Well, my 'go figure' comment was more along the lines of how UAL arguably has lost way more than the Comair folks.

For the most part, UAL crews are great (I ride on them weekly) but I have seen a few less than happy ones. For instance, the UAL captain the other week that told me, "if I was a Republic guy I wouldn't have gotten a ride". His FO subsequently rolled his eyes and later apologized for the captain's attitude. Thankfully I didn't get the jumpseat in the end, as a UAL guy showed up last minute and bumped me out. As it turns out I got business on the 777 for the next flight anyway :) Sure beats riding up front with a grumpy captain.
 
Doug Taylor said:
Just curious, where do these figures come from?
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CPZ can flow up to 1/3 of it's list during a year and they are allowed to be up to a certain % of each class... I can't remember the amount for XJ, but I know it's along the same lines.



His numbers are a bit skewed, but he also has a point (that he didn't intend- not the point he was trying to go after) and brings to light my biggest beef with flows. I would rather staple all the regionals in one foul swoop and call it a day if we're gonna start doing this... or at the very least have applicants prescreened by their mainline counterparts like at CPZ and then be able to flow up.

It's not the CPZ flow that I have as much of an issue with- they were hired with the expecation and understanding that they would flow. It's the XJ flow and the precedent that it sets.
 
bike21 said:
Well, my 'go figure' comment was more along the lines of how UAL arguably has lost way more than the Comair folks.

For the most part, UAL crews are great (I ride on them weekly) but I have seen a few less than happy ones. For instance, the UAL captain the other week that told me, "if I was a Republic guy I wouldn't have gotten a ride". His FO subsequently rolled his eyes and later apologized for the captain's attitude. Thankfully I didn't get the jumpseat in the end, as a UAL guy showed up last minute and bumped me out. As it turns out I got business on the 777 for the next flight anyway :) Sure beats riding up front with a grumpy captain.
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How's that commute treating you, what with all the UAL displacements?
 
jtrain609 said:
How's that commute treating you, what with all the UAL displacements?
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Fairly well actually, a few headaches here and there but I make it work. Funny thing is, the fun UAL crew yesterday morning had plenty to bitch about if they wanted. Captain had been displaced to the 757/767 from the 777 and and the FO was a senior'ish Guppy guy and now a reserve 757/767 guy. But they cared more about having a good time, getting to know me, sharing stories and commenting on the purser's stripper boots than anything else :)

Enjoying the break between semesters?
 
Indeed I am, it's nice to recharge a little bit. Though now that I'm through the first semester, and of course pending I didn't fail all my exams, I think things are moving pretty well in school. It's another 5 semesters worth of work, but there is already a light at the end of the tunnel.
 
jtrain609 said:
Indeed I am, it's nice to recharge a little bit. Though now that I'm through the first semester, and of course pending I didn't fail all my exams, I think things are moving pretty well in school. It's another 5 semesters worth of work, but there is already a light at the end of the tunnel.
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Excellent! Buddy of mine is almost finished at John Marshall in Chicago, he is darned excited. Actually he is the president of the student ABA or whatever, so if you need some networking or something ;)
 
pilotlight said:
And you don't fly for a wholly owned? Good luck!!!!!
90 spots per year from compass and 84 from Mesaba
174 spots already taken. If
200-300 precious spots per year for the rest of the industry when they start hiring. Thats your punishment for picking the WRONG REGIONAL to work for.
Don't get me wrong you can still get hired but its going to be a lot harder for the rest of us pee ons
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Doug can verify the numbers, as I'm just going by memory, but starting by late 2012, DAL's retirements number at around 600-800 per year. The 174 you count are barely a dent in what's required just for attrition, let alone growth.

If I worked for Comair I would be pissed if Delta is where i wanted to work.
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The CMR pilots can blame their own MEC leadership for their lack of favor. They could have probably secured some sort of preferential hiring deal if they had not stabbed the DAL pilots in the back when DALPA came calling for pref hiring during the massive post-9/11 furloughs. Instead, the CMR MEC told them that they would only talk about it if DALPA agreed to give them bigger airplanes.

You stay classy, Comair!

PeanuckleCRJ said:
Personally, I'd be perfectly fine just stapling all the pilots from the DCI regionals as they are now as long as they meet are min quals (which aren't very high at all... I met Southernjets min quals when I got hired by Pinnacle) and call it a day. Stepping stone problem solved.
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Why should they have to meet your min quals? You're already letting them fly your passengers with whatever mins the regionals come up with on their own.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Doug can verify the numbers, as I'm just going by memory, but starting by late 2012, DAL's retirements number at around 600-800 per year. The 174 you count are barely a dent in what's required just for attrition, let alone growth.



The CMR pilots can blame their own MEC leadership for their lack of favor. They could have probably secured some sort of preferential hiring deal if they had not stabbed the DAL pilots in the back when DALPA came calling for pref hiring during the massive post-9/11 furloughs. Instead, the CMR MEC told them that they would only talk about it if DALPA agreed to give them bigger airplanes.

You stay classy, Comair!



Why should they have to meet your min quals? You're already letting them fly your passengers with whatever mins the regionals come up with on their own.
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Because the regionals don't do a very good job with candidate quality selection...

remember, Pinnacle is the place that hires you upon discovery of a pulse. I'm sure that Delta has a bit more stringent HR requirement than just that...
 
cencal83406 said:
Because the regionals don't do a very good job with candidate quality selection...

remember, Pinnacle is the place that hires you upon discovery of a pulse. I'm sure that Delta has a bit more stringent HR requirement than just that...
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Doesn't matter. Those pilots are still flying Delta customers. If they aren't good enough for Delta customers, then Delta shouldn't allow them to be hired at the DCI carriers. Hiring requirements could easily be included as part of the CPA/ASA. If they're going to allow them to fly Delta customers at DCI, then they should be good enough to fly Delta customers at Delta.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Doesn't matter. Those pilots are still flying Delta customers. If they aren't good enough for Delta customers, then Delta shouldn't allow them to be hired at the DCI carriers. Hiring requirements could easily be included as part of the CPA/ASA. If they're going to allow them to fly Delta customers at DCI, then they should be good enough to fly Delta customers at Delta.
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Well... you're a big whig.... tell me how you can make this happen. What are you guys doing to ensure that Skywest crews are qualified to be flying Airtran customers?

What can DALPA do (without the infamous what are you going to give up to get it scenario) to get Delta on board with "enforcing quality standards at its regional partners"?

We've got guys here who try to find ways to get LESS fuel on board; we've got guys who tell me "what are you doing that paperwork crap for" when I'm calculating fuel burn and remaining, we've got guys who fail Guadalajara check outs..... we've got guys that don't know that a speed restriction on a SID is exactly that - a restriction, not a "must be faster than this speed at or before this point".....

I'm in the most senior base.... I didn't really start to notice "funky stuff" until I got here.....

to top that, our manuals teach differently than Bombardier, so depending on who went to differences and when, you'll have one guy who claims that the AVAIL light on the 900 means it's ready for bleed air extraction; or those who want to single-taxi on engine #1.... I could go on.

Staple these folks too???? Or perhaps conduct a staple "interview".... we'll put you on the list but ya gotta be this tall to ride...
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Doesn't matter. Those pilots are still flying Delta customers. If they aren't good enough for Delta customers, then Delta shouldn't allow them to be hired at the DCI carriers. Hiring requirements could easily be included as part of the CPA/ASA. If they're going to allow them to fly Delta customers at DCI, then they should be good enough to fly Delta customers at Delta.
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Then would they be compensated as one qualified to fly a Delta customer?

Its too bad that lowest cost is the driving factor, not a quality product.
 
Until "Big Airline" has QC over who "Smaller Airline Feeding Big Airline" employs, BA is well within it's rights to determine which pilots from SAFBA get hired at BA.

Besides, if BA cared that much, BA would be flying the jets themselves with pilots from their own seniority list or at least demand minimum hiring standards, compensation and benefits.
 
cencal83406 said:
Well... you're a big whig.... tell me how you can make this happen. What are you guys doing to ensure that Skywest crews are qualified to be flying Airtran customers?
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I'm negotiating for strong scope language so it isn't a problem in the first place. But, theoretically, if we were going to staple SkyWest pilots to the bottom of our list, I wouldn't give a flying what their qualifications are. I have no reason to believe that they are incapable of doing their jobs, so it would be egotistical to extreme proportions to assume that I should set minimum standards that would exclude some of them from being placed on our seniority list. They are fellow airline pilots, so I would no hesitate to allow them on our list. I would encourage it rather than continuing to allow outsourcing.

What can DALPA do (without the infamous what are you going to give up to get it scenario) to get Delta on board with "enforcing quality standards at its regional partners"?
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I think the real question is what they need to do to reduce the number of regional partners in the first place. That should be the real goal. Stapling may be a result of that, and then it should be a straight staple, not an egotistical "min standards" staple that excludes pilots that don't meet your arbitrary standards.

We've got guys here who try to find ways to get LESS fuel on board; we've got guys who tell me "what are you doing that paperwork crap for" when I'm calculating fuel burn and remaining, we've got guys who fail Guadalajara check outs..... we've got guys that don't know that a speed restriction on a SID is exactly that - a restriction, not a "must be faster than this speed at or before this point".....
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Those sound like training issues to me. I'm sure Delta would have no problem training those pilots to standard.

Staple these folks too???? Or perhaps conduct a staple "interview".... we'll put you on the list but ya gotta be this tall to ride...
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Staple "interviews" are absurd, just as min qual staples are absurd. Nothing angers me more than one group of pilots thinking they are superior to another group of pilots. Whether it's flight hours, education, age, whatever. We're all air line pilots, doing the same job every day as our fellow pilots in every other group. These artificial divisions are what create so many of our problems in trying to advance our profession. Whether it's Delta pilots looking down on DCI pilots that don't have a 4-year degree, or Comair pilots that look down on Mesa pilots because they don't have as much flight time, it's all the same: union pilots fighting union pilots. That's not how to advance this profession. Time to look at each other as equals.
 
Reduce? Hell, eliminate.

If you buy a ticket on Delta, you should be flying on a Delta aircraft staffed with Delta employees.

Have everything from the ATR up to the 747-400 on the property.

If the company wants a squadron of CRJ-900's between PHX and DFW, well, have at it.

No need to renegotiate "Fee For Departure" or oops, we promised that route to Skywest but we're going to give it to Mesa right before we have Chatau Chataqu aww screw it, Chicken Taco fly it.

Beechcraft, Brasilias, RJ's, CEEE RJ's are not 'beneath' me.

I'd fly the ass out of a Dash-8 if it was on property, under my contract.

C.E. Woolman would want Delta passengers flying on Delta Jets, with Delta people, drinking Pawberry Punch and Coca Cola from Atlanta, Georgia. Not this Frankenstein collection of connections, feeders, code shares, scope, scope waivers, fee for departures and academies in Sanford created to ensure a steady flow of cheap labor.

That's were the company veered horribly away from the core principles from which it was founded.
 
PeanuckleCRJ said:
I disagree with your statement on the stepping stone mentality. Regionals are set up to be stepping stones and will never be anything more unless you start later in life or get "stuck." Their existance is based solely on going for the lowest cost to get outsourced flying from mainline companies. Under the way things are now- no matter what great contract you get, they will NEVER be anything more.
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Regional airlines are intended to be 'stepping stones' because of airline managers using them to chip away at Majors.

When we treat them as stepping stones and scramble over each other to get past them, we as pilots lose.

When we remember that all aspects of our professional careers should be treated as the highest point we may reach, we all win.

We cannot and must not give ground at any place along the way. It's all relevant.
 
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