So who wants to fly on a Super Constellation?

[HeyEng]

Back when I used to jumpseat a long time ago, I'd often see a 4-striper FE on the DC-10 or 727; explained to me that due to age 60 at the time, they couldn't occupy the front seats, but could fly as FE until 64.

Age of 64?

I have to hunt it down, but one of the last FEs at TWA was in his 80s when he retired.

This thread is great (showed my Grandad who was a recip FE at EAL for several years flying planes including the Connie), so I won't ruin it with some terrible history of how the FE union at EAL got royally screwed by the pilots union...

 

[Springer]

Didn't I watch the MATS Connie go trompin' through the cottonfield back in '95???

That is about right. They lost their hydraulics taxing out, crossed Avra Valley road and into the cotton field.

Some millionaire owned the Connie and a few other planes they were working on at the airport. They redid some O-2's and were restoring an A-37. I gave them my manuals in hopes I might fly the jet but after watching their progress and workmanship, I passed on the thought. I don't think it ever flew.

 

[MikeD]

Age of 64?

I have to hunt it down, but one of the last FEs at TWA was in his 80s when he retired.

This thread is great (showed my Grandad who was a recip FE at EAL for several years flying planes including the Connie), so I won't ruin it with some terrible history of how the FE union at EAL got royally screwed by the pilots union...

The PFEs, the ones who weren't pilots, I know they could stay as long as they could pass a medical. For some reason, 64 came to mind back then for the reverted Capt/FOs.

Were the FEs a different union? As in PFEs, or FEs who were pilots/Second Officers? Or Both?

@A Life Aloft , did your line have PFEs until their last 3-crew jets were retired?

 

[Tommay85]

I think Lufthansa had one running around. Sometimes subbed for A32x. I guess it was all glass + RVSM

Edit: I was incorrect. However the project is underway:http://www.lufthansa-technik.com/super-star-news

It's parts plane is in Aguadilla, PR (BQN). I was sad when I saw this, but glad to see a lot of it being put to work on another bird I guess.

 

[A Life Aloft]

The PFEs, the ones who weren't pilots, I know they could stay as long as they could pass a medical. For some reason, 64 came to mind back then for the reverted Capt/FOs.

Were the FEs a different union? As in PFEs, or FEs who were pilots/Second Officers? Or Both?

@A Life Aloft , did your line have PFEs until their last 3-crew jets were retired?

We had FE's who were professional FE's only and not pilots, FE's like me who were pilots who eventually upgraded to F/O's and then some retired Captains who came back as FEs. UAL had a larger number of FE's who were only professional FE's, especially on the 727's (100 and 200s, etc.). As that part of the fleet went, so did they. But there were also pilots who began as FE's and then after a time worked their way up to the right seat and that happened on the 707, 727, DC-8 and DC-10 . That is how I began (we were second officers but performed the duties of the FE and were called FEs) but had our commercial license. This is how many pilots started their careers at UAL (and other mainline carriers) back in the 70's and that continued for a very long time. As I mentioned before, there was even a time when some Captains retired because of the age limit but came back to their own or other airlines as an FE only, just to continue working and flying. They of course could no longer act as a pilot/fly because of the age rule. And some of the guys who were professional FE's were like 69 and 70 years old when the last of the 727's went after 9/11 (and yes we still had FEs on them) . I have even heard of guys past 70 working as FEs for foreign carriers. It was the same on the 747-122 as above. After 9/11, there really went the last of the three seats. No FE on the 400's.

In the real old days, the professional FE's were also full power plant mechanics who could perform and assist in repairs. They could sign off on repairs also and help perform them and supervise them at out stations. In flight, they kept the log sheets as well.

Yes, different union, but I am not sure I want to get into anything union in this thread and how screwed over the professional FE's got at the carriers, why and the history of that over time, because that is sure to wake the sleeping cheerleaders into what has up to now been a nice thread. Let's just say there were some serious issues and some serious screwing that occurred in a couple periods of time. No union has a perfect, with no disgrace, no scandals, we always do everything right past, no matter what some people will tell you on here or portray a union as.

 

[derg]

That Constellation makes my year stint plumbing on the seven-duece look like I spent that year with crayons and a "Tarzan" coloring book.

 

[MikeD]

That Constellation makes my year stint plumbing on the seven-duece look like I spent that year with crayons and a "Tarzan" coloring book.

Was it an option for you to go to 727 FO, following that year? Why did you change planes, is what I'm asking......since in '99, the 727s were still around at your shop. Were they just not available to bid for FO or your seniority couldn't hold at the time?

 

[derg]

Was it an option for you to go to 727 FO, following that year? Why did you change planes, is what I'm asking......since in '99, the 727s were still around at your shop. Were they just not available to bid for FO or your seniority couldn't hold at the time?

I was assigned the 727 in indoc. I had the ability to "bid off" in another month, but I was seeing the country much unlike I had the opportunity to do at Skyway and especially as a CFI. The first year the money is all the same. Plus, if you have any problems during probation in training, all sorts of bad things can go down.

I was living in Orlando then and we had a base there so the obvious choice after probation was to bid the MCO 73S category.

 

[arkflyr]

Learning to fly and working at MKC from 98-03 I was able to watch the Save-a-Connie operation fly theirs around before they had all of the mx and money problems. Those folks kept a full airshow schedule back in those days so it would go out on Thursday or Friday and come home Sunday, in all weather like clockwork. The old timers that flew it said it was the best three engine airplane ever built.

 

[JetDoc]

Back when I used to jumpseat a long time ago, I'd often see a 4-striper FE on the DC-10 or 727; explained to me that due to age 60 at the time, they couldn't occupy the front seats, but could fly as FE until 64.

Back in the mid 90's when I was turning wrenches at the terminal at SFO for UAL we would turn a rope start 747 that originated in ORD stopped in SFO and then continued on to HNL. When you would make the climb up the spiral staircase to the "flightdeck" (we couldn't call it a "cockpit") to do the logbook review there literally would be Father Time sitting in the left seat, his younger brother in the right and his OLDER brother sitting at the panel. Three white heads of hair with a collective age of about 180. It was actually kinda neat to see all that experience but you help feeling kinda sorry for the plumber because you kinda knew that the only reason he was still working was because he was on his third wife and was probably putting his second set of kids through college. Ahhhhh memories.