So who wants to fly on a Super Constellation?

A Life Aloft said:
Oh man, the FE on the Connies had their hands full for sure. FE's who were not pilots were most often also mechanics (they even had their own tool bag) and were expected to troubleshoot and effect small repairs on certain flights. I've always said that the bringing of pilots up through the ranks as FEs (like I was) was the best possible training and experience as you really learned/understood all the systems and controls of the aircraft. There was no Regional purgatory in my day.
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Do you think that some of those practices of yesterday could be applied to the younger pilots of today? I know, like in most things, technology makes it all easier and faster to learn. But, back then, it seems that sometimes getting grease on your shirt wasn't all bad. I know the FE days are all but gone, but learning your ship by getting your hands dirty seems like a good thing.

Actually, I have no idea how pilots train in today's world, but I'm purely assuming that it's nothing close to what it was like in the 50's.
 
mshunter said:
Why do people always refer to airplanes as "her," and "she."

A Connie is a machine, and a manly one at that.
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Yeah, why is that? I just do it because that's what I grew up in. Guys in my father's generation seemed to call everything a, "She". Planes, automobiles, ships......tacos...etc. ;)
 
mshunter said:
Why do people always refer to airplanes as "her," and "she."

A Connie is a machine, and a manly one at that.
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Because like all things mechanical, if you don't care for, listen to, and respect her, she'll bite you in the ass, take all your money and leave you stranded in the middle of nowhere. Of course the payoff from actually doing the above is a sweet ride :D
 
Area 5150 said:
Yeah, why is that? I just do it because that's what I grew up in. Guys in my father's generation seemed to call everything a, "She". Planes, automobiles, ships......tacos...etc. ;)
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In aviation, it's the heritage of nautical references/similarities........same reason we sometimes call planes "ships" and sometimes use the word "helm", cockpit is often used for the flight deck, etc. The uniforms for example, are modeled after Military Naval uniforms.
 
MikeD said:
The MATS Connie used to fly around here a lot, until it was sold to Korean Air Lines and ferried from AZ to South Korea.

That Connie was finishing work to make airworthy, last I saw it at AVQ.
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Didn't I watch the MATS Connie go trompin' through the cottonfield back in '95???
 
Area 5150 said:
Do you think that some of those practices of yesterday could be applied to the younger pilots of today? I know, like in most things, technology makes it all easier and faster to learn. But, back then, it seems that sometimes getting grease on your shirt wasn't all bad. I know the FE days are all but gone, but learning your ship by getting your hands dirty seems like a good thing.

Actually, I have no idea how pilots train in today's world, but I'm purely assuming that it's nothing close to what it was like in the 50's.
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It's a shame that the Majors (well what few of them are left) don't have their own academies. If they didn't sub out the Regional flying and actually controlled/ran it, that would be the key. They could groom and train young pilots to fit their own company model/mode and flow them up through the ranks as needed. You wouldn't have to see some poor guy sitting in the right seat forever at a regional as the current model works. You'd have the opportunity to enhance safety training for example and give pilots more opportunities to sit on various committees even at the lower levels and gain more experience that way as well. The current system is horrible. I realize that technology has changed, but pilots have been seriously devalued and limited along with those changes. Visiting ATC towers, OPs/Dispatch and the MX hangers on a regular basis for example, were the norm in my day. When does that ever happen now for young pilots? They are so limited and really miss out on a wide variety of knowledge and experience that could easily be incorporated into their careers and give them more opportunities, and make them more well rounded. The training at all levels in general, is shorter now than it used to be.
 
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z987k said:
Whenever I've seen an FE working, the FE runs the ship. The Captain might fly it, but it's the FE that keeps it in the air.

The FO sits there and looks pretty.
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Ha! I love this! The FEs were responsible for managing and controlling all the systems on the aircraft. We were the ones sent back to the cabin or the lav or the galley if something broke/wasn't working and tried to diagnose/repair it. We sometimes did the walk arounds (they really enjoyed sending us out when the wx was particularly crappy lol), and especially if something had been repaired or replaced on the plane recently, to check it.
 
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It just seems that as technology moves forward, it just making everything stale and plain. Would it be so hard for airlines, railroads etc to still incorporate that sense of style and class in today's world? I actually believe if you, "Re-introduced" what this industry started out as, it would go over huge with the flying public.
Of course, there are so many self absorbed, it's about me people out there, they either 1, would care, or 2. wouldn't get it.

Things now days are boring as hell.
 
z987k said:
Whenever I've seen an FE working, the FE runs the ship. The Captain might fly it, but it's the FE that keeps it in the air.

The FO sits there and looks pretty.
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So, when the Jet age was ushered in, was the work load for the FE just as bad, if not worse. Or, was that the beginning of technology and automation making things a little easier for the FE. Seeing old pics and videos from the 707, 727 days, looks like the FE was always taking a math quiz and flipping switches.
 
Area 5150 said:
So, when the Jet age was ushered in, was the work load for the FE just as bad, if not worse. Or, was that the beginning of technology and automation making things a little easier for the FE. Seeing old pics and videos from the 707, 727 days, looks like the FE was always taking a math quiz and flipping switches.
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It was just the systems changes that became more integrated and were different and obviously the engine changes. On the 727 for example there was no more RPM, manifold pressure, cylinder head temp, and BEMP, it was exhaust gas temperature, N-1 and N-2 in percent of RPM, and exhaust pressure ratio/ EPR. Engine starts were done by the Captain and the FE at my shop. The F/O read the pre-flight and starting checklist. The FE read the other lists. We also had some radio tasks. But the tasks were also a bit different in relation to the three crew members at different airlines. They all had their own procedures and how they were rationed out/incorporated to each crew member. Over time they could also be changed and modified. So the work load wasn't necessarily easier, just different. We still had to monitor and control the engines, fuel, electrical systems, hydraulics, pneumatics, paks, pressure, etc. Lot's of numbers and flows to commit to memory.There was still some "manual" work that had to be performed on the early jets/systems.
 
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A Life Aloft said:
Many of the FE's were also pilots and a lot Captains who retired (forced by age limits) came back as FE's on the Connie and on other aircraft over time at the carriers. This was pretty common. We had a number of them at UAL do this. You saw this at EAL, Pan Am, TWA, DAL, etc.
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Back when I used to jumpseat a long time ago, I'd often see a 4-striper FE on the DC-10 or 727; explained to me that due to age 60 at the time, they couldn't occupy the front seats, but could fly as FE until 64.
 
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