Snow does step 5...an FSA diary

Snow

'Not a new member'
Welcome to another posting, step 5 is a little vauge on what excactly it is so I just called it 'step 5' instead of trying to describe it. It's actually a cross between more time building for comerical and well doing all those manuvers for comerical that I haven't done since multi. (No we're not talking chandels but VMC demos etc)

Day 1 - Friday, May 16th

Well here I am, in the final stretch. It's hard to belive it's only been a little over 7 months since I started with 0 hrs and here I am soon to become a comerical pilot and truly step into the role of 'professional pilot'. I'm still a little iffy on what to do next, I was planing on going the CFI route but the mesa program looks really tempting, however I think the min hours requirement is 250hrs and when I finish my comeical I'll have more like 180hrs, so right now it's looking like I'll be sticking to the orginal plan for now. The ASA program isn't really an option cause I don't have enough money for that and I doubt the Eagle program will be much cheaper.

Anyhow, had my first lesson of 'step 5' today, we didn't have enough time for the 3hr breif so we did the VFR frasca instead and practiced all the comerical manovers, wow it's been a while since I've been able to see out of that little screen in frount of me! lol

Day 2 - Saturday, May 17th

Nada on today, just the usual saturday routine.

Day 3 - Sunday, May 16th

More lazing about today, it's kinda nice not to have to be studying for anything in particular, I spose I should review some of those Seminole systems though, it's been a while
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Day 1 - Friday, May 16th
however I think the min hours requirement is 250hrs and when I finish my comeical I'll have more like 180hrs


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you need 250 hrs. for a commercial certificate

reg. 61.129
 
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Day 1 - Friday, May 16th
however I think the min hours requirement is 250hrs and when I finish my comeical I'll have more like 180hrs


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you need 250 hrs. for a commercial certificate

reg. 61.129

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Part 141 you only need 190 hours.....up to 30 of which can be in a certified flight training device. Go back to the books and do some more homework. I got my multi-commercial with about 165 hours.
 
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Part 141 you only need 190 hours.....up to 30 of which can be in a certified flight training device. Go back to the books and do some more homework.

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Open mouth, insert foot.
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I just did a little homework and according to FlightSafetyAcademy's website they are both a Part 141 and Part 61 school. Maybe Snow is going the Part 61 route? Granted I did not search all of his posts, but I suppose he could be going the 141 route instead. If that is the case, then I did not do enough homework.
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Part 141 you only need 190 hours.....up to 30 of which can be in a certified flight training device. Go back to the books and do some more homework. I got my multi-commercial with about 165 hours.

[/ QUOTE ]120 hours for 141

do your homework
 
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Part 141 you only need 190 hours.....up to 30 of which can be in a certified flight training device. Go back to the books and do some more homework. I got my multi-commercial with about 165 hours.

[/ QUOTE ]120 hours for 141

do your homework

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So where did you find that? My understanding is the 141 school submits to the FAA their Training Course Outline, and if the FAA grants it, then however many hours is in the TCO, that is the minimum time it can be completed in.
 
Different FAR/AIM's have different page numbers depending upon who prints 'em. Got a section number reference for us instead?
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I think that the part that you are looking at (Appendix D, section 4) is only part of the total hours required. That section refers to the flight training you need for the commercial rating only. On top of that you need (as a pre-requisite) the private license and instrument ratings. There's probably some other details involved, too. I'm sure someone who is better versed in the 141 regs can give you a better answer, but the minimum number of hours to end up with a commercial certificate is higher than 120, even for part 141 schools.
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this might help. I searched the FAA website:

Title 14: Aeronautics and Space
PART 141—PILOT SCHOOLS
Subpart F—Records
Appendix D to Part 141—Commercial Pilot Certification Course
4. Flight training. (a) Each approved course must include at least the following flight training, as provided in this section and section No. 5 of this appendix, on the approved areas of operation listed in paragraph (d) of this section that are appropriate to the aircraft category and class rating for which the course applies:

(1) 120 hours of training if the course is for an airplane or powered-lift rating.
(2) 155 hours of training if the course is for an airship rating.
(3) 115 hours of training if the course is for a rotocraft rating.
(4) 6 hours of training if the course is for a glider rating.
(5) 10 hours of training and 8 training flights if the course is for a balloon rating.

(b) Each approved course must include at least the following flight training:

(1) For an airplane single-engine course: 55 hours of flight training from a certificated flight instructor on the approved areas of operation listed in paragraph (d)(1) of this section that includes at least—
(i) 5 hours of instrument training in a single-engine airplane;
(ii) 10 hours of training in a single-engine airplane that has retractable landing gear, flaps, and a controllable pitch propeller, or is turbine-powered;
(iii) One cross-country flight in a single-engine airplane of at least a 2-hour duration, a total straight-line distance of more than 100 nautical miles from the original point of departure, and occurring in day VFR conditions;
(iv) One cross-country flight in a single-engine airplane of at least a 2-hour duration, a total straight-line distance of more than 100 nautical miles from the original point of departure, and occurring in night VFR conditions; and
(v) 3 hours in a single-engine airplane in preparation for the practical test within 60 days preceding the date of the test.

(2) For an airplane multiengine course: 55 hours of flight training from a certificated flight instructor on the approved areas of operation listed in paragraph (d)(2) of this section that includes at least—
(i) 5 hours of instrument training in a multiengine airplane;
(ii) 10 hours of training in a multiengine airplane that has retractable landing gear, flaps, and a controllable pitch propeller, or is turbine-powered;
(iii) One cross-country flight in a multiengine airplane of at least a 2-hour duration, a total straight-line distance of more than 100 nautical miles from the original point of departure, and occurring in day VFR conditions;
(iv) One cross-country flight in a multiengine airplane of at least a 2-hour duration, a total straight-line distance of more than 100 nautical miles from the original point of departure, and occurring in night VFR conditions; and
(v) 3 hours in a multiengine airplane in preparation for the practical test within 60 days preceding the date of the test.
 
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but the minimum number of hours to end up with a commercial certificate is higher than 120, even for part 141 schools.

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As an example I am just about done with my IFR training and my school is both a 141 and 61 school. I should finish my IR with 100-115 hours total time. For my commercial rating I have two options part 61 which would require 250 hours total time or the 141 route which with my school (a 120 hour program) should get me to my commercial checkride with 220-230 hours. If it works out that way it will be slightly less expensive to go the 141 route.
 
I'm fairly sure it's done on a case by case (ie school by school) basis as approved by the FAA. I got my private with 35hrs and part 61 is 40 min, not real sure about the others but I'm sure I got the ratings with more than mins for multi and instrument simply because there's a large time building segment right after private, all the hours after private go towards your comerical requirements which if you get everything done in the minumum time, it works out to be around 180-190hrs total time (does not include sim time) I'd figure it out exsactly but I don't have my course outline with me. Even after getting all the instructor ratings I'll still only be about 220-230hrs and technically would work out even less if I did MEI part 61 since you only need to show proficentcy. (ah! I need a spellchecker!
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Day 4 - Tuesday, May 18th

Well picked up my instrument certificate today and handed in my temporary licence, I still haven't recived my private in the mail yet! Might have to have a word with the FAA since it's been 5 months already and all my licences have pending on them.
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Anyhow had a simple 2hr VFR cross country today, ah the joys of being able to see outside again and not worry about breifing approaches! Today I was dodgeing clouds at 7500ft, ah I haven't had this much fun since step 2!
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Flew into ZPH (Zepherhills?) today, not a bad little uncontroled airport, nicely maintained rwys and decent FBO, not to mention some great H20
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Saw a bunch of North South Airways Brazillas and a United Express plane aparently sitting in mothballs at the airport, seems a rather strange place to put them since I think they're based out of Atlanta, anyone else heard about them and do they still fly? Are they cargo or pax? They were baremetal with a red stripe and lettering.
After a quick stop we headed back again, the airspace in general was plesently uncongested and it was nice change flying VFR after the stresses of the IFR checkride. Although we could have flown most of the flight in the clouds for some actual, oh well.
 
Alright fools, here is how it works. You need 35 hours of flight training to get your private under part 141. You need an additional 35 hours for the instrument rating, and 120 hours to get the commercial.

35 hrs (Private) + 35 hrs (Instrument) + 120 hrs (Commercial) = 190 hrs. Of this total up to 30 can be in a flight simulator or flight training device.

190 hrs is standard for 141 and 250 hrs for a part 61 commercial (in part 61 up to 50 hrs can be in a sim or FTD).
 
Day 5 - Wednesday, May 19th

Had a night cross country this evening. We flew down to Stuart for a few touch and goes, then we headed further south to Ft Lauderdale Intl where we did some more touch and goes. This was a lot of fun as we had a parallel runway to ourselves and we could watch all the heavys landing on the runway beside us. Not only that but the approach to 27R takes you over the freeway at about 150ft! So it was rather spectacular to say the least! We had combied to 1.5hr lessons so we still had time to burn, we headed further south and flew down the coast at Miami and flew into Tamiami for a few more approaches to get the 10 take off and landings required. After that it was back up the coastline at 1000ft to stay under class B and as we were approaching Ft Lauderdale, the controler asked us if we wanted to climb over the field at 2500ft or proceed down the coast at 500ft, we chose the 500ft option as zooming along the beach at 160kts only a bit higher than the apartment buildings sounded exciting, however once we got handed off to the tower we were told to fly over the field instead
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Eventually made it back to Vero, quite a fun flight with lots of cloud dodging as it was a VFR only lesson.

Day 6 - Thursday, May 20th

This evening we had another night cross country although this one would be hard to top last night's. This time we flew into the Tampa area and I opted to goto Whitted field, if you look at it on the sectional the runways are almost entirely surounded by water and it's like landing on a carrier, that and the fact it only has a odd 2600ft of landing distance! I always try to go somewhere new and my instructor hadn't been there the 2 yrs he's been here either! Anyhow flight was going fine, were getting vectored into the airport at 1600ft and as soon as we get over the bay, wham we hit all this turbulance! I quickly retarded the throttles as we were close to Vno, gear horn going off and I think my instructor smacked his head on the dash as he was leaning forward to look at the hobbs! Everyone was fine, it was rather amusing actually since the whole flight upto this point had been vertually turbulance free, and one would expect the turbluance to occur over land and not water as usually is the case around Vero. Anyhow at first we thought it was wake turblance from a helo in the area but it continued the whole 5-6nm across the bay to the airport. We did a taxi back landing as the runways was too short for a touch and go. We then departed just before the tower closed and once again experence the same chop coming back over the bay, weird. Rest of the flight went fine all the way back to Vero although not before I filed a pilot report with Flight Watch.

Day 7 - Friday, May 21st

No flying on for today but did some review for the upcoming comerical oral.

Day 8 - Saturday, May 22nd

Drove upto Orlando for a convention today, sure takes a whole lot longer by car.

Day 9 - Sunday, May 23rd

Just relaxed today.

Day 10 - Monday, May 24th

Today I had my 5hr cross country. I found out that the airports I wanted to goto weren't on the fuel list but instead of redoing everything I just decided to go ahead and pay any difference. I had thought about going to Atlanta but that would have put us about 1/2hr over and that was IF there wasn't any delays. Funny how I can now get to Atlanta in a faster time in the Seminole than it takes to get to Savana in the Cadet. Plus I'm sure I'll be seeing a LOT of Atlanta later on in my career so it can wait.

Opted todo the flight IFR cause it's actually easier when it comes to flight planning and it gave me a chance to get some actual, I didn't fly under the hood however, I kinda like being able to take in the scenery! Flew upto Tallahassee and at our altitude we got to fly though a fair few clouds, much more fun doing it without the foggles on as you can actually see it coming. Did a quick touch and go after the approach (again foggleless another first) and headed on to Jacksonville Intl. Coming in on the ILS funnly enough we were told to slow down and climb 1000ft to allow a P-3 to get in front of us. We kept our distance and eventually landed. I exited the 1st taxiway which was actually facing the wrong direction but the next taxiway was another 300yards so I got off there. I think the tower wasn't expecting us to get off there so we had to wait a bit for a CRJ and a 757 to pass before continuing. On the way to the Jet Center we also had to cross onto a parallel taxiway to allow a turboprop to pass. There was more heavy traffic here than I have envisioned, there was a Delta 767, 757s and smaller airliners too. Glad to get out as it was 92deg and we had been in the aircraft a little over 3hrs already. Gave the FBO our fuel order and took a courtesy car to get a late lunch/ early dinner at Denny's. Got back, hoped in the plane and headed back, it was kinda cool taxing around among jets and commuters, we took off after another P-3 (or it could have been the same one, not sure) and flew the 2hrs back to Vero. We were in and out of the clouds a fair bit on the first 1/2 of the trip so we got to log 1.5hrs actual. It was a lot of fun but a hit to the wallet, I'll be glad when the day comes I'll be getting paid for this instead of the other way around!
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Day 11 - Tueday, May 25th

Had a 3hr breif to prepare for the comerical oral, not a lot of new things covered but it was a good review none the less.

This afternoon a ASA Captain was in to talk to us. She explaned various things about the hiring process, direct track and generally what they were looking for in pilots. Quite educational and completely free
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Day 12 - Wednesday, May 26th

No flying on today, but I took this opportunity to do some more studying for the comerical oral, most of this stuff I have been tested on in the past but oh how the memory fades!
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Plus I only have another 2 frascas and then it's onto the checkrides!
 
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