Snort has apparently gone west

fholbert said:
Once I'm on the runway at an uncontrolled airport I'm going before someone hits me. Takeoff and landing, I practice minimum time on the runway, it's not a safe place.
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If they land on top of me it means they are under the power lines at the end of the runway.
 
touch-n-go said:
Hearing that he may have been in a hurry given his abbreviated ATC communications.
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dustoff17 said:
My first thought as well. He sounded rushed and was still on ground. Controller switched him to tower on the roll.
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I don’t necessarily draw that conclusion. Abbreviated/short comms are common with tactical jet background guys who don’t like wasting time yapping on the radio like many civilians do, and who practice good C4 comms. I’m the same way still to this day, where some may think that sounds rushed.
 
dustoff17 said:
My first thought as well. He sounded rushed and was still on ground. Controller switched him to tower on the roll.

It's the snake you don’t see that usually bites you. Be careful out there!


As I watched this video, I recalled one from an Army safety briefing. "Snort's" crash sequence of events is remarkably similar to the Army Caribou that crashed due to control lock being engaged.

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I don't think the comms were perfectly in sync with the video.

Edit to add: the description on youtube says, "Periods of silence longer than a half-second are truncated in the audio between 0:00 and ~0:53. The audio and video may appear to be synchronous. They are not."
 
L-16B said:
If they land on top of me it means they are under the power lines at the end of the runway.
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I was taught 360 in the run up area, which protects you from being landed on top of at airports without power lines at the end (or displaced thresholds etc), but same general idea. Good SA and final sanity check of traffic in the pattern before entering the runway. :)
 
fholbert said:
Maybe. I will say my io520, 300hp, gets really hot making a short field, 50 foot obstacle departure. I wouldn’t climb like that just for fun.
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fholbert said:
This accident at Fullerton CA. The rudder, elevator gust lock was in place. It was reinstalled by an over zealous CAP’er without the pilots knowledge.

The guy in the white shirt owned the Bushmaster, his fathers design. I’ve heard the story directly from him.

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fholbert said:
Once I'm on the runway at an uncontrolled airport I'm going before someone hits me. Takeoff and landing, I practice minimum time on the runway, it's not a safe place.
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You do realize there's more to aviation than just casual Southern California Viking flying?
 
MikeD said:
I don’t necessarily draw that conclusion. Abbreviated/short comms are common with tactical jet background guys who don’t like wasting time yapping on the radio like many civilians do, and who practice good C4 comms. I’m the same way still to this day, where some may think that sounds rushed.
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guywhoflies said:
I don't think the comms were perfectly in sync with the video.

Edit to add: the description on youtube says, "Periods of silence longer than a half-second are truncated in the audio between 0:00 and ~0:53. The audio and video may appear to be synchronous. They are not."
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Agreed. Video aside, she cleared him for takeoff, he acknowledge, then she ask him to switch to tower, and he acknowledge and apologized. Makes me think he wouldn't have apologized if he didn't think he had made a mistake (albeit small).
Also makes me think "distraction" or rushed. However, I'm not throwing a stone either.
 
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inigo88 said:
I was taught 360 in the run up area, which protects you from being landed on top of at airports without power lines at the end (or displaced thresholds etc), but same general idea. Good SA and final sanity check of traffic in the pattern before entering the runway. :)
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Yeah I fly out of a grass strip. No taxi ways just the runway. So basically no Runup area like if there was a taxiway
 
For some clarification, the ARFF service at KLWS is equipped with one crash truck as seen in the video. The requirement to even have a crash truck at the airport only exists due to the air carrier operations that go on at the airport. And by FAR, is required to be available during their operations. ARFF is not a requirement for GA ops. The way KLWS airport works it, is they have one ARFF firefighter manning the crash truck at the station where it is located 15 minutes before to 15 minutes after every air carrier operation (takeoff/landing) or every operation by a charter aircraft with 30 or more passenger seats. Backup for the one crash truck during an incident would come from structure firefighters from the city fire station about 2 miles away. At times other than these, the crash truck may be unmanned. Hence was the case here that resulted in the extended response time by about 1 minute or so over standard. Not bad for an unannounced emergency, depending on where the one firefighter was on the airfield at the time.
 
MikeD said:
For some clarification, the ARFF service at KLWS is equipped with one crash truck as seen in the video. The requirement to even have a crash truck at the airport only exists due to the air carrier operations that go on at the airport. And by FAR, is required to be available during their operations. ARFF is not a requirement for GA ops. The way KLWS airport works it, is they have one ARFF firefighter manning the crash truck at the station where it is located 15 minutes before to 15 minutes after every air carrier operation (takeoff/landing) or every operation by a charter aircraft with 30 or more passenger seats. Backup for the one crash truck during an incident would come from structure firefighters from the city fire station about 2 miles away. At times other than these, the crash truck may be unmanned. Hence was the case here that resulted in the extended response time by about 1 minute or so over standard. Not bad for an unannounced emergency, depending on where the one firefighter was on the airfield at the time.
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It didn't matter anyway, that impact was fatal.
 
fholbert said:
Control lock?
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Someone I spoke to at the scene, believed it had something to do with a bag shifting and interfering with control movement.
Having said that, I have no idea of the interior access to cables/rods, or in the (possible) baggage area, and if that scenario is even possible.
I also have no idea why he believed that or his source of information. It may be what he heard from someone that was present as Mr Snodgrass loaded up for departure.
 
mightynimbus said:
Someone I spoke to at the scene, believed it had something to do with a bag shifting and interfering with control movement.
Having said that, I have no idea of the interior access to cables/rods, or in the (possible) baggage area, and if that scenario is even possible.
I also have no idea why he believed that or his source of information. It may be what he heard from someone that was present as Mr Snodgrass loaded up for departure.
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By no means am I trying to speculate on THIS accident, but historically speaking other events with a similar accident sequence had some form of nose up input. Being a tandem seat aircraft, common errors are the Cessna seat lock doesn't fully engage into the rails and the seat slides back causing a nose high input when either the front seat pilot unintentionally applies nose up inputs as the seat slides back and or the back of the front seat moves the rear seat stick/ yoke (there are multiple ADs to address this) or nose high trim from the last three-point landing was not reset for takeoff. A third failure mode is the hinge mechanism of the front seat back fails thus turning the seat into a full recliner while pinching the rear seat stick in a nose high attitude. This failure occurred to an airshow performer during his routine: Details Emerge On 'Close Call' During OSH2012 Airshow | Aero-News Network

The Birdog's baggage area is behind the rear seat, and would be very unusual to have any luggage that is properly stowed to interfere with the rear stick located forward of the rear seat. Then again, without knowing what was in the rear seat or baggage area at the time - it would be hard to know if and how it could have impacted full and free movement of the stick. I've seen other events where large cargo was in the rear seat (coolers, rack from a buck, boxes, etc.) prevented full nose up on landing and the pilot couldn't flare for a three-point landing, but wheel landed without incident.
 
Septuagenarian dies in early attempts to master extreme STOL take-offs in a new aircraft.

That headline would make sense if it wasn't Snort.

Every instinct in me wants to find something other than failed stick-and-rudder efforts as the cause of the accident.

I've spent hours watching STOL take-off competitions, online and in person. I don't have a sense what looks right, what looks possible.

Whatever the cause of this crash, I think that Snort's accident will save many lives as mortals pause to question their own skill, judgement, routines, and attitudes.

Godspeed, Captain.
 
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