Holding Short
Well-Known Member
I think Mythbusters should try an episode on that right there. HeHe
Small plane, engine dead
- Thread starter Kestrel452
- Start date
ozziecat35
4 out of 5 great lakes prefer Michigan.
Or if you're real good, open both the doors as far as possible (scrawny muscle permitting) and increase drag hella fast!
jaded
Well-Known Member
i'd land with whatever gear you have if its a hard surface in a slower airplane.. you can balance it on one wheel til your just about stopped.. if your careful.
Seen an uneventful 2 wheel landing in duchess in person.. and seen videos of others on just the nosewheel or just 1 main.. they just balanced on the wheel for as long as possible..
but.. I fly a pitts and land on one wheel all the time for fun.. so..
In the Embraer though.. Two mains.. definitely down. Any thing other than that Id probably put em up.. I think thats what the manual says as well..
Here is a pic of one of our jets in Boston.. pilots had a 3 green down indication, shortly before touchdown got a "landing lever disagree" warning, they said they thought gear was down and continued, can't remember all the details of exactly why they continued.. but anyway for whatever reason they continued the approach.. note the gear doors open, felt the sink more than normal at touchdown, realized gear was NOT down.. MAX thrust.. airplane dragged the flaps then took off again, got the gear down manually, landed safely without incident.. VERY, VERY lucky on that one. Only damage was on the flaps.. They tested it on the ground on jacks, the plane showed 3 green down and locked, and the gear did not come down.. they put that same control module in another aircraft and duplicated the problem.. turned out to be a faulty computer control module embraer had to fix..
They continued because according to Embraer (at least according to the company at the time and manuals) if you get 3 down indication the gears ARE down. The 3 down indication is indicated by 3 green lights on the EICAS, now if the landing gear handle is in a position that disagrees with the position of the gear for more than 20 seconds i believe, those 3 green lights will indicate 3 red, which means (according the books) the gears are down, but the lever disagrees from what I remember. So per Eagle's Non Normal checklist they were ok to land. At least, that's what I remember happened. Eventually Embraer found this little loophole in the Logic of the system and either fixed it, or fixed the procedures.
jaded
Well-Known Member
The pilots were landing thinking that the gears were down but had a disagreement with the gear handle (according to the checklist) While on the flare, when the Pilot Flying realized that they were getting a lot lower than where they would be on a normal landing, the pilot added full power, went around and dropped the gear manually.
BillH
New Member
Deans?
Kestrel452
New Member
If necessary, is is possible to bail out of a Piper if you have a parachute and not impact the rear airfoils?
Run out along wing. But you'll have to find a way to keep the entry door open against the relative wind.....the little door stop won't do it, unless there are quick-release pins or something similar.
So in all liklihood....no or maybe.
It depends.
RPM
Well-Known Member
What you are gonna want to do is get it into an inverted flat spin, invert it, stall it with full down elevator/full rudder so it goes into a spin.. slowly add full power to get the spin to go flat along with full rudder/aileron same direction speeding it up.. remove seat belt, crack door open and.. fling.. see ya.. you won't go anywhere near the elevator, It's probably broken off by this point anyway lol
Or... just slow down to like 35kts so the wind isn't so hard against the door and climb onto the roof and bail (a gainer would be nice here).. whats the worst that could happen lol.
Who wears a chute in a Piper anyway?
ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
What you are gonna want to do is get it into an inverted flat spin, invert it, stall it with full down elevator/full rudder so it goes into a spin.. slowly add full power to get the spin to go flat along with full rudder/aileron same direction speeding it up.. remove seat belt, crack door open and.. fling.. see ya.. you won't go anywhere near the elevator, It's probably broken off by this point anyway lol
Or... just slow down to like 35kts so the wind isn't so hard against the door and climb onto the roof and bail (a gainer would be nice here).. whats the worst that could happen lol.
Who wears a chute in a Piper anyway?
Climb under the wing and hold on the gear, then fling yourself off of the gear
planesiscool
New Member
Naw... if I were "da man," I wouldn't have hit those trees at the end of the field.
Whatever dude!! You are the man! Doug we need a bowing avatar.:rawk:
Tazjet
New Member
There was an airline pilot flying a Cessna 207 with his family in New Zealand about a decade ago who suffered a broken crankshaft. He flew a perfect approach for a forced landing into a farmer's field but just undershot and clipped the fence wires with his wheels. It acted like an arrester hook. All burned in the ensuing fire, but post mortem showed they all actually died from the deceleration with ruptures of the aorta.
Keep in mind that it's the sudden deceleration that kills. Bend the aeroplane to absorb deceleration if you have to. Another thing is that sometimes landing in trees if you can stall into them is not as terrible as it sounds. Trees can absorb impacts too.
Keep in mind that it's the sudden deceleration that kills. Bend the aeroplane to absorb deceleration if you have to. Another thing is that sometimes landing in trees if you can stall into them is not as terrible as it sounds. Trees can absorb impacts too.
subpilot
Squawking 7600
ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
Its a 207, it has roughly the same glide ratio as the space shuttle. Walking away can happen, but you have to pay attention.
LatitudeDancer
Well-Known Member
I've got a book lying around somewhere titled something like "how to crash a Bonanza and walk away." The guy who wrote it actually described something like the quote above as the perfect way to crash an A36. He basically said if you've got a good AOA and plop onto the top of some trees at stall speed the fact you're sitting on the wing spar (more or less) will keep you from being skewered. He claimed it was better than mud, plowed fields, or H2O. I used to do a lot of lower level flying to a lake and back in central Arkansas and there was nothign but trees below. I liked his theory but would hate to have tested it.
Joe Gremlin
Well-Known Member
Well every situation is different so you there are no absolutes. But most of the time when you stall it into the top of the trees, the branch wouldn't be coming through the floor, it'll be coming through the windscreen. When the plane stalls, it doesn't stop moving forward, it'still moving forward, just not as fast. So when you start to fall, you're not likely to fall straight down into the trees, you'll be moving foward in a nose low attitude, which when you think about it, would make it more likely that you'll take a branch through the windscreen than the floor. So that wing spar isn't do squat for you. Plus once you stall it, you're a passenger and its going where ever its going however it wants to go.
If you fly it in at just above stall speed, you'll be batter able to aim for the space between the proverbial two trees thereby allowing more of the energy to bleed off via the wings instead of the main part of the airframe.
subpilot
Squawking 7600
very well said! I have read many news stories of people surviving off field landings but never heard of anyone surviving a stall into the ground.
