Skywest to fly for Airtran

Re: AirTran Pilots: Outsourcing Bad for Business (Skywest)

Air Tran is just trying to take as many pax from RAH as they can, and in this case without spending a lot of money since Skywest is taking the risk. Airtran is hoping RAH gives up on MKE and focuses elsewhere, like DEN.
 
Re: AirTran Pilots: Outsourcing Bad for Business (Skywest)

Gonzo said:
What does the union have do to with if a 50 seats can make money.

FYI: It looks like this deal is going to cost FL zero money. The problem is the cost to run a CRJ-200 is about the same as a 717.
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Would like to see your source because I guarantee you are wrong.

And I want numbers to numbers. Per hour basis, none of this CASM crap.
 
SoCalAprch said:
Because its an hour drive from Chicago and even shorter from the northern suburbs. When the people in the burbs gotta fly they can drive 30 min to O'hare or 30 min to MKE and if you have been into ORD lately you probably know why more and more people are choosing the latter. Especially when you factor in the amount of LCCs that are setting up shop there. Makes sense to me...
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Agreed 100%.

I don't have the stats in front of me, so pulling this out thin air, but willing to bet there's 3 million+ people within an hour drive of MKE. There are so many norther Suburbs, and Milwaukee isn't a small town either (shade under 1 mil in the Milwaukee County according to the 2008 census).

Much less delays in MKE when compared to Chicago, might even find some cheaper fares too due to the LCCs.
 
Re: AirTran Pilots: Outsourcing Bad for Business (Skywest)

stuckingfk said:
Would like to see your source because I guarantee you are wrong.

And I want numbers to numbers. Per hour basis, none of this CASM crap.
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I can't find numbers for Skywest but for Pinnacle it is about $1300 (without fuel) per an hour.

http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/Pinnacle-Airlines-NASDAQ-PNCL-1027335.html


Only numbers I can find for Airtran are from 2004 and put the cost at about $1300 ($2,000 - $700 in fuel)

http://avisupser.dgrsolutions.com/cost/b717-200.html
 
Re: AirTran Pilots: Outsourcing Bad for Business (Skywest)

kellwolf said:
Pretty bold statement considering they haven't even started flying them. Odds are pretty good they're just trying to get SOME money coming in rather than paying penalties on lease returns or having to pay the leases on them while they sit in the desert generating no cash.

Basically, previous poster was correct. The only thing AirTran is having to do in the deal is allow Skywest to sell tickets to their flying on the AirTran reservation system. It's a win-win for AirTran management. Skywest needed SOMEONE with an established route network to attract customers.
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So why would the union care what Skywest is doing if they are on their own and it doesn't effect airtrans own routes?

surreal1221 said:
What's your formal education in again?
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Everyday I thank god we have surreal to bring such relevant questions and insights to every thread. How do you manage this? You're such a genius.

Gonzo said:
Good thing RAH isn't growing. Also yes SWA has a union in fact they are the most unionized airline in the world.

Unions have very little to do with profit and management had a lot.
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SWA has done well in spite of the unions not because of them. Airtran would be better off (not necessarily doing well) without it's union too.
 
Re: AirTran Pilots: Outsourcing Bad for Business (Skywest)

Killtron2000 said:
So why would the union care what Skywest is doing if they are on their own and it doesn't effect airtrans own routes?
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Because they don't want to be the next Frontier or Midwest. Honestly, I can't say I blame them. What's with the union witch hunt? Seems the work pretty well for SWA. Most unionized carrier in the biz, yet they somehow seem to turn a profit every time. Maybe it's because the union and management work together for the good of the company and the employees? The trouble comes when management starts gunning for their own pocketbooks or golden parachutes, then the unions have to get tough to protect their members.

Every airline out there with a union has one because somewhere in their past management did something to bring about its existence. They don't just appear and get voted in for the hell of it.
 
Re: AirTran Pilots: Outsourcing Bad for Business (Skywest)

Killtron2000 said:
SWA has done well in spite of the unions not because of them. Airtran would be better off (not necessarily doing well) without it's union too.
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So you think management has nothing to do with SWA being a profitable company. I think you need to read Nutz because the guy who ran SWA doesn't see it that way. A union can't help or hurt a company only good or bad management can.
 
Re: AirTran Pilots: Outsourcing Bad for Business (Skywest)

Doug,

I've said it before and I have said it again, remember that conversation we had in the crew room and your post that was a result of it? Where was that? Every time a thread like this pops up I think it might be a good idea to re-post that. You know, I love it when folks that have nothing to do with the airline pilot profession proclaim how much more they know than us. Pure awesomeness!
 
Re: AirTran Pilots: Outsourcing Bad for Business (Skywest)

kellwolf said:
Because they don't want to be the next Frontier or Midwest. Honestly, I can't say I blame them. What's with the union witch hunt? Seems the work pretty well for SWA. Most unionized carrier in the biz, yet they somehow seem to turn a profit every time. Maybe it's because the union and management work together for the good of the company and the employees? The trouble comes when management starts gunning for their own pocketbooks or golden parachutes, then the unions have to get tough to protect their members.
Click to expand...

Management and the union working together I don't think has a lot to do with profit. Just look at AMR under Crandall the guy hated the unions and was an ass to work for the the company made money and the employees got paid.
 
Re: AirTran Pilots: Outsourcing Bad for Business (Skywest)

Gonzo said:
Good thing RAH isn't growing. Also yes SWA has a union in fact they are the most unionized airline in the world.

Unions have very little to do with profit and management had a lot.
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I was trying to goad him into saying "YES!!!", darnutt! :)
 
Re: AirTran Pilots: Outsourcing Bad for Business (Skywest)

Capt. Caucasian said:
Doug,

I've said it before and I have said it again, remember that conversation we had in the crew room and your post that was a result of it? Where was that? Every time a thread like this pops up I think it might be a good idea to re-post that. You know, I love it when folks that have nothing to do with the airline pilot profession proclaim how much more they know than us. Pure awesomeness!
Click to expand...

I remember, fo' show dawg.

You know, you and I work for one of the least unionized airlines in the business and got drug through the bankruptcy courts so I'm not buying the "unions R expensive and cost a lot of money" angle.
 
Re: AirTran Pilots: Outsourcing Bad for Business (Skywest)

Gonzo said:
So you think management has nothing to do with SWA being a profitable company. I think you need to read Nutz because the guy who ran SWA doesn't see it that way. A union can't help or hurt a company only good or bad management can.
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They run things differently at SWA which is because of management. I'm not disputing that management has the bigger influence on the health of airtran or SWA. I only thought it was assinine that a union would try to say that their concern is for the passengers and for airtrans bottom line.
 
Re: AirTran Pilots: Outsourcing Bad for Business (Skywest)

Killtron2000 said:
They run things differently at SWA which is because of management. I'm not disputing that management has the bigger influence on the health of airtran or SWA. I only thought it was assinine that a union would try to say that their concern is for the passengers and for airtrans bottom line.
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On what basis do you qualify your statement upon?
 
Re: AirTran Pilots: Outsourcing Bad for Business (Skywest)

Killtron2000 said:
They run things differently at SWA which is because of management. I'm not disputing that management has the bigger influence on the health of airtran or SWA. I only thought it was assinine that a union would try to say that their concern is for the passengers and for airtrans bottom line.
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A union looks out for the employees that it represents. Employees benefit from a company that is viable and has a good bottom line.

Not working out so well for you tonight....
 
Re: AirTran Pilots: Outsourcing Bad for Business (Skywest)

kellwolf said:
Because they don't want to be the next Frontier or Midwest. Honestly, I can't say I blame them. What's with the union witch hunt? Seems the work pretty well for SWA. Most unionized carrier in the biz, yet they somehow seem to turn a profit every time. Maybe it's because the union and management work together for the good of the company and the employees? The trouble comes when management starts gunning for their own pocketbooks or golden parachutes, then the unions have to get tough to protect their members.

Every airline out there with a union has one because somewhere in their past management did something to bring about its existence. They don't just appear and get voted in for the hell of it.
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The union is saying they oppose this deal because it would be bad for the flying public and the company. You said yourself this is a win win for airtran. I would go as far as to speculate that the union opposes skywest in anything they do because their pilots don't pay union dues.
 
Re: AirTran Pilots: Outsourcing Bad for Business (Skywest)

Killtron2000 said:
The union is saying they oppose this deal because it would be bad for the flying public and the company. You said yourself this is a win win for airtran. I would go as far as to speculate that the union opposes skywest in anything they do because their pilots don't pay union dues.
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The union opposes this b/c it is outsourced flying. Outsourced flying is lower quality, operated by employees that have minimal motivation to the "host" company's bottom line, and is built for one thing: saving money at whatever the expense.

The only people that benefit from outsourced flying are the ones that work at said outsourced company.
 
Re: AirTran Pilots: Outsourcing Bad for Business (Skywest)

PeanuckleCRJ said:
A union looks out for the employees that it represents. Employees benefit from a company that is viable and has a good bottom line.

Not working out so well for you tonight....
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Are you saying that unions and labor contracts are good for the companies bottom line?
 
Re: AirTran Pilots: Outsourcing Bad for Business (Skywest)

Killtron2000 said:
Are you saying that unions and labor contracts are good for the companies bottom line?
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Absolutely.

Delta has one major union, how many billions have they lost?
 
Re: AirTran Pilots: Outsourcing Bad for Business (Skywest)

PeanuckleCRJ said:
The union opposes this b/c it is outsourced flying. Outsourced flying is lower quality, operated by employees that have minimal motivation to the "host" company's bottom line, and is built for one thing: saving money at whatever the expense.

The only people that benefit from outsourced flying are the ones that work at said outsourced company.
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The union is claiming this about the customers and the companies bottom line not about outsourcing flying.
 
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