Skywest crew caught drinking, not thinking

[cmill]

Dude I am on your side. What I am saying, is that if they were legal by the blow test, then they probably DIDN'T stink of booze. But to stink of booze you have to have consumed a bunch of alcohol.

ahhh, I'm sitting in the safety of my recliner, reeking of booze right now, so sorry for the comprehension fail.

 

[dasleben]

I respect you dasleben but it frankly isnt your business what someone does on an overnight if it's legal.

I never implied that it was. It is the company's business though, and if their policy is 0.02 (or even zero tolerance), going over that will still lead to the end of your career. These two are more than likely done...it's a shame.

 

[Inverted]

I've never seen in the FARs where smelling like alcohol was a violation. Are you both somehow suggesting that the crew tricked a BAC test, or that mormon air is covering it up? If thats the case, then lets get Qutch in here.

I respect you dasleben but it frankly isnt your business what someone does on an overnight if it's legal.

Nobody is saying smelling like alcohol was a violation. But hotel staff are required by law, as I believe are taxi drivers (I was told this by hotel staff) to call attention to this type of stuff. So they were reported, and blew within the FARs, great...

 

[Inverted]

ahhh, I'm sitting in the safety of my recliner, reeking of booze right now, so sorry for the comprehension fail.

Hey I have had a bottle of wine, but I'm not flying tomorrow....

 

[cmill]

I never implied that it was. It is the company's business though, and if their policy is 0.02 (or even zero tolerance), going over that will still lead to the end of your career.

This is completely true.

I consider myself the king of snarky comments, and this:

Also, 6 beers in normal afternoon is...well, whatever. I won't go into it.

just caught my attention.

 

[cmill]

Hey I have had a bottle of wine, but I'm not flying tomorrow....

And I'm not flying until March, so cheers!

 

[dasleben]

I consider myself the king of snarky comments, and this:



just caught my attention.

Well, my personal opinion is that it'd be excessive for a normal afternoon, but my personal opinion doesn't set policy. I also don't go around asking when people's show times are, or count drinks. Hell, I drink. I just see a lot of borderline alcoholism in this industry, and it's bothersome.

 

[Nick]

ahhh, I'm sitting in the safety of my recliner, reeking of booze right now, so sorry for the comprehension fail.

Better than sitting in the safety of your booze, reeking of your recliner.

 

[Nick]

Well, my personal opinion is that it'd be excessive for a normal afternoon,

You're right.

But the article said it was a Bemidji layover.

 

[cmill]

Well, my personal opinion is that it'd be excessive for a normal afternoon, but my personal opinion doesn't set policy. I also don't go around asking when people's show times are, or count drinks. Hell, I drink. I just see a lot of borderline alcoholism in this industry, and it's bothersome.

It's very bothersome, but IMHO what is more bothersome is that no one asks why.

Not many will admit it, but "fake it till you make it" plays a big role. Secrets from the Tower was funny, but also sad. But it gave a very honest insight to what people in this industry actually deal with.

 

[cmill]

Better than sitting in the safety of your booze, reeking of your recliner.

No, that might be right also.

 

[Cal Goat]

Obviously there's some missing information. But as far as the company is concerned, these 2 are canned (I assume). The pseudo-unions shouldn't be able to save them (I assume). It's a crappy situation, and I know I've been guilty of probably getting too close with the bottle-to-throttle rules myself... though never close enough to get a measurement by a law enforcement agency. The evolution of my career has seen my attitudes toward alcohol evolve as well.

Part 91 aerial mapping: No direct supervisor day-to-day, very little customer interaction. Definitely flew with a pounding headache a few times.

Part 91 aircraft sales: A lot of direct interaction with my employer and customers... in small airplanes. Didn't tempt fate. If I thought I might have appeared hungover or possibly smelled of booze, I'd have called in sick (which I never did as I recall).

Part 91 corporate management: Actually had customers/owners invite us out for drinks on a number of occasions. Never more than 2 drinks (as tempting as it was when they were buying the good stuff) and just go back to the hotel. Even if they didn't care, the professional discipline meant something to our pilot group.

Part 135 cargo: Definitely a lapse in discipline here. Day in and day out, you (I) definitely brush up against the limits of legality.

Part 121: Now I'm so much more visible to the flying public and that directly affects my actions with the bottle. As corny as it sounds, the ideal of the professional discipline means more to me than being a cool guy and maneuvering through the loopholes and pushing the limits.

Just the other week I was in PDX for a couple of hours before my flight and I wanted to eat breakfast. There are 2 (I think) brewpubs in the terminal with interesting menus. I suppose I could have eaten at either one and just had water or coffee but I was too discouraged by the idea that I'd be a crewmember in uniform at an establishment with a heavy emphasis on alcohol. So I ate at Rose's instead (great pancakes and bacon btw) even though there would be nothing illegal about eating at the Rogue brewpub.

And if I'm drinking at a bar at the layover, my occupation is plumber or truck driver if anyone asks.

 

[Nick]

And if I'm drinking at a bar at the layover, my occupation is plumber or truck driver if anyone asks.

This is one thing that I don't understand most of the time.

If it's for the purposes of dodging the usual aviation questions, I get it. Saying plumber or trucker is kind of like changing out of uniform on a deadhead flight. Just blend in and you won't hear "what's your route??"

But if I'm down at the hotel restaurant having dinner and a glass of wine or two and some damsel walks in and plops down at the table across from me and after a few minutes, asks, "what brings you here?" No offense to the people that make it their trade, but I am not telling her I am a plumber.

I suppose that's also the potentially skewed view of an unattached person.

 

[A Life Aloft]

I think what some are missing here are several other factors to consider. First off, the rules and regulations in the industry have gotten much stiffer/less tolerant over time. That is not going to change. The magnifying glass only grows larger and tolerance smaller. Are you truly willing and able to understand the consequences of what this means and abide by whatever the rules are by the industry and by your company's own standards, or is it more important to just do what you want to do anyway as long as you think you can get away with it or you think that you are fine to bend these rules. Does your profession mean enough to you to understand and commit to having the self-discipline to comply with all the standards set forth. How serious/important is this career for you or is it just a "job".

Secondly, one has to be honest within themselves as to the lifestyle they are leading and how it may affect their ability to do their job. And what I mean by this, is do you always have in the front of your mind that you must be at 100% mentally together/alert and physically ready to do the task at hand. Have you gotten enough true rest, are your personal issues/problem/stress at check and in control, are you at your peak mentally and physically and at your sharpest to perform your job in the event that something, anything goes tits up.Can you say that you are being a true professional and showing up for work at 100% every single day. Or is it okay just to show up in a condition that you deem as alright because that is what you want and think you can just skate by without any real consequences.

Thirdly, you hope to have a long career. You have invested all of your adulthood, a huge sum of money, years of training, years of scraping by, years of holding down other flying jobs and perhaps teaching, to finally get to your goal of THE job in aviation that you have sought, dreamed of, sacrificed for and worked for your entire life. Your wife or significant other or kids have also been by your side to make that commitment with you and with their sacrifice and support. You may even still have debt from training or school or a mortgage to pay off. You want to be in this industry for as long as possible and get as far as you can. You have enough to worry about in being able to keep your medical intact for as long as possible as it is. Can you commit to trying to be the best you can be physically, trying to be as healthy as possible and in shape to ensure this. Even then, anything can happen along the way. Everyone is going to age. If you think any of this gets better or easier the older you get, it doesn't. It's also worthwhile to consider what kind of shape you want to find yourself in medically when you finally do retire. It's not a sprint, it's a damn long marathon. Are you really going to last a couple of more decades and be able to do what it takes to endure all the ups and downs, the changes and the uncertainty, if you cannot control your own personal behavior, set your priorities and decide what really has significance and importance in the long run. Or is it all about the potential of chucking all of this away on a foolish whim, denial, immaturity and refusal to see reality and the big picture.

 

[thevideographer]

if you cannot control your own personal behavior, set your priorities and decide what really has significance and importance in the long run. Or is it all about the potential of chucking all of this away on a foolish whim, denial, immaturity and refusal to see reality and the big picture.

The attitude among some people is that all of that goes out the window when you have to spend a night somewhere "boring". Because how can anyone control themself when they're in Bemidji for 24 hours, right? flying the airliner be damned.

 

[Cal Goat]

This is one thing that I don't understand most of the time.

If it's for the purposes of dodging the usual aviation questions, I get it. Saying plumber or trucker is kind of like changing out of uniform on a deadhead flight. Just blend in and you won't hear "what's your route??"

But if I'm down at the hotel restaurant having dinner and a glass of wine or two and some damsel walks in and plops down at the table across from me and after a few minutes, asks, "what brings you here?" No offense to the people that make it their trade, but I am not telling her I am a plumber.

I suppose that's also the potentially skewed view of an unattached person.

Part of it is the usual line of questions that follow and part of it is to avoid tempting fate fate with someone saying "Ohmergerd I saw a pilot at a bar." It's not illegal, sure, but given the recent history of airline pilots getting caught in situations like this, you can see how it might be potential for trouble.

It's a basic level of professional appearance whether or not it's legitimate. The flying public doesn't expect their pilots to have long hair or stubbly facial hair, and they damn well don't want to be worried that you might be buzzed or hungover from the night before. We are charged by our profession to maintain and project discipline. It might be a cheap facade sometimes, but nevertheless.

Oh and pulling out your pilot card to pull girls at bars is a desperate move. Any man worth his salt should be able to seduce a woman without ever mentioning that he's a pilot.

Just my .02 of course.

 

[derg]

Not that it applies in this situation but remember the "traceable amount" and "8 hr rule" or the "0.04 BAC" are all mutually exclusive rules.

 

[Douglas]

Hmm, I always used those interchangeably, until I was put in place by a POI. One is a part of the other, and I honestly cant remember which. Ie: the opsecs are in the GOM, but the FAA "accepts" the whole thing. I dont remember is either one is approved though.

All I can remember is that if its in the manual, then you abide by it.

OpSpecs is a chapter in the GOM :TMYK:

 

[dasleben]

OpSpecs is a chapter in the GOM :TMYK:

Not necessarily, but what were we talking about again?

 

[amorris311]

Thank god I don't look like a pilot. Most people don't believe me anyway so I say I'm a Snapple rep and I'm in town to see if razzmatazz is still flying off the shelves.