SKYW Poolies - Some are going to class

PBS can, and hearing from a growing vocal majority it may, never see the light of day at ASA.

Too many growth myth believers still.
 
surreal1221 said:
PBS can, and hearing from a growing vocal majority it may, never see the light of day at ASA.

Too many growth myth believers still.
Click to expand...

Just like the 900 and Diversified flying myth believers huh? I hope PBS will pass at ASA. If not the pilot group will be digging their own grave. Even ALPA is supporting it. Everything management has aimed for since SKW took over has come to fruitation (900s, diversified carrier flying). Playing hardball right now would not be smart right now IMO. ASA is the only DCI and i think only united ex carrier without PBS.
 
Trip7 said:
Just like the 900 and Diversified flying myth believers huh? I hope PBS will pass at ASA. If not the pilot group will be digging their own grave. Even ALPA is supporting it. Everything management has aimed for since SKW took over has come to fruitation (900s, diversified carrier flying). Playing hardball right now would not be smart right now IMO. ASA is the only DCI and i think only united ex carrier without PBS.
Click to expand...

Does PBS not require fewer pilots? I always seem to think it did due to pilots are bidding on what they want based on a point system. And thus you are more likely to show up to work due to more pilots getting their choice of a schedule. And then fewer pilots would save the company money. Are you not worried that if you got PBS you might be on the street with being so low regardless of a, "No furlough clause?" More so it would possibly keep more of your ALPA brothers and sisters on the street even longer it would seem..... Just a few thoughts of mine and curious where you see this.....
 
Trip7 said:
Just like the 900 and Diversified flying myth believers huh? I hope PBS will pass at ASA. If not the pilot group will be digging their own grave. Even ALPA is supporting it. Everything management has aimed for since SKW took over has come to fruitation (900s, diversified carrier flying). Playing hardball right now would not be smart right now IMO. ASA is the only DCI and i think only united ex carrier without PBS.
Click to expand...

Clearly a thorough discussion must occur first . . . otherwise any further comment I have directed toward this post will fall unto deaf ears.

:dunno:
 
IMHO...

I think that the PBS vote we have coming up will fail. I think it will be close (of those who bother to vote), but I believe it will fail. The short reason I believe it will fail is because the guys who did the negotiating didn't get all that much in return for the pilot group for what is clearly a large concession.

Without stepping on the toes of those who are out on the street, I think that the most effective way to guarantee a 'yes' from the pilot group would be to pay protect all current and future Captains who would be bumped a seat. This would go a long way towards shoring up the opinion of the middle of the seniority list, who will clearly be the 'swing' vote on this issue. Closely related: no more furloughs. If the company would put these two ideas in writing, I think PBS would pass instantly.

(Sorry guys, I don't think there is enough will to ask for a return of all of our furloughs...)
 
If SKYW were to make the mistake of placing a single 'poolie' in class before the slot is even offered to the ASA guys, I think that it would sow the first real seeds of discontent amongst the portion of the pilot list that will be Captains in the next two years.

Proceed with caution SKYW, please...
 
aviategw said:
If SKYW were to make the mistake of placing a single 'poolie' in class before the slot is even offered to the ASA guys, I think that it would sow the first real seeds of discontent amongst the portion of the pilot list that will be Captains in the next two years.

Proceed with caution SKYW, please...
Click to expand...

Last I checked its two different companies? So SKY has no contract right? They can do as they please? Skywest Inc took over ASA?

Now side note... I agree it should stay UAL, ASA, Poolies.... But last I checked there's damn near 1000 guys/gals at UAL so all should come first.....
 
If I were an ASA furlough, and Skywest called and said "Hey, we'll hire you, but you have to give up your ASA seniority number....." well, what's there to lose? You're gonna be on the bottom at EITHER carrier, and it's the same corporate management. Difference is you either have a job or you're waiting for a hopeful recall.

Marcus, ALPA was technically "behind" the TA here. If they weren't, it wouldn't have been passed to the pilots for a vote. Thankfully, people acutally READ the darn thing. Just because your union leaders say it's a good thing doesn't make it so. Read the agreements, think like management would and make your decision based on that. If I did what a lot of the reps said, I'd be back on reserve for 12 hours a day, and they'd have a nice $30K bonus check to deposit.

Fact: PBS allows an airline to operate with a thinner pilot group that paper bidding. If we were still on paper bidding here at PCL, we'd have hired at LEAST two groups of FOs and had an upgrade class or two by now. As it is, they're able to run razor thin thanks to the parameters they can build into PBS to max out line productivity. More productive lines = fewer pilots needed. Fewer pilots needed = longer time for recalls.

Sometimes you have to play hardball, even if you don't want to. The alternative is to roll over on anything management wants when the going gets tough. If that turns out to be what you do, the going will ALWAYS be tough. Management will see to that.
 
According to the chief pilot at ASA, the slots will be offered first to United furloughees and then they may consider ASA furloughees.
 
GaTechKid said:
We're part of the same parent company but we offer jobs to Yonited first? Whaaat?
Click to expand...

I guess the argument could go either way. Yes same holding company, but most of our 'gain' is from the UAL furloughs (parking the guppies) and they of course are more 'senior' in the grand scheme of things. I certainly don't feel good about getting more flying while UAL guys are on the street.

I won't argue for either case, but I would hope both groups are accommodated as much as possible.
 
aviategw said:
If SKYW were to make the mistake of placing a single 'poolie' in class before the slot is even offered to the ASA guys, I think that it would sow the first real seeds of discontent amongst the portion of the pilot list that will be Captains in the next two years.

Proceed with caution SKYW, please...
Click to expand...

Wait....what? Who is upgrading?
 
meyers9163 said:
Same company, not same airline. ASA guys were always the first to point that out when SKW Inc purchased ASA.
Click to expand...

A generalization that does not apply to the vast majority of us.

Personally, I have mixed feelings - I think any company should take care of it's own employees, but then a lot of the United guys were SKW employees not so long ago.
 
It's, as far as we know, 16 people.

I'm sure 16 United guys will jump at the chance to make 50% of what they were making before, and fly 6 leg days in a baby-jet.
 
meyers9163 said:
Does PBS not require fewer pilots? I always seem to think it did due to pilots are bidding on what they want based on a point system. And thus you are more likely to show up to work due to more pilots getting their choice of a schedule. And then fewer pilots would save the company money. Are you not worried that if you got PBS you might be on the street with being so low regardless of a, "No furlough clause?" More so it would possibly keep more of your ALPA brothers and sisters on the street even longer it would seem..... Just a few thoughts of mine and curious where you see this.....
Click to expand...

kellwolf said:
If I were an ASA furlough, and Skywest called and said "Hey, we'll hire you, but you have to give up your ASA seniority number....." well, what's there to lose? You're gonna be on the bottom at EITHER carrier, and it's the same corporate management. Difference is you either have a job or you're waiting for a hopeful recall.

Marcus, ALPA was technically "behind" the TA here. If they weren't, it wouldn't have been passed to the pilots for a vote. Thankfully, people acutally READ the darn thing. Just because your union leaders say it's a good thing doesn't make it so. Read the agreements, think like management would and make your decision based on that. If I did what a lot of the reps said, I'd be back on reserve for 12 hours a day, and they'd have a nice $30K bonus check to deposit.

Fact: PBS allows an airline to operate with a thinner pilot group that paper bidding. If we were still on paper bidding here at PCL, we'd have hired at LEAST two groups of FOs and had an upgrade class or two by now. As it is, they're able to run razor thin thanks to the parameters they can build into PBS to max out line productivity. More productive lines = fewer pilots needed. Fewer pilots needed = longer time for recalls.

Sometimes you have to play hardball, even if you don't want to. The alternative is to roll over on anything management wants when the going gets tough. If that turns out to be what you do, the going will ALWAYS be tough. Management will see to that.
Click to expand...

PBS does allow a company to operate with fewer pilots and much more efficiently. As an already senior and expensive pilot group with a good contract, ASA needs to reduce costs and run more efficiently to position itself better for growth. Management is trying to make the company as efficient as SKW is. And whatever PBS program we end up with will also be used by SKW, a win win for both pilot groups.

Playing "hardball" will not yield favorable results for the ASA pilot group when your sister company has similarly paid pilots that are much more productive and efficient.
 
Trip7 said:
PBS does allow a company to operate with fewer pilots and much more efficiently. As an already senior and expensive pilot group with a good contract, ASA needs to reduce costs and run more efficiently to position itself better for growth. Management is trying to make the company as efficient as SKW is. And whatever PBS program we end up with will also be used by SKW, a win win for both pilot groups.

Playing "hardball" will not yield favorable results for the ASA pilot group when your sister company has similarly paid pilots that are much more productive and efficient.
Click to expand...

Wow, it didn't take you long to move from being a line pilot to being in the management group.
 
jtrain609 said:
Wow, it didn't take you long to move from being a line pilot to being in the management group.
Click to expand...

Overlooking long term prosperity for short term gains that hamper or completely destroy your long term prosperity is something that has and will continue to haunt the pilot profession.

Keeping the line bidding system for short term benefits like to bring back furloughs a couple months earlier and to be able to extend your vacation a couple extra days is not worth it when half the pilot group is furloughed within 2 years.
 
Or maybe you keep it around because it improves quality of life for the pilot group.

ExpressJet still has line bidding, and it's not something you're going to see the pilot group give up.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top