SKYW Pay package results

OldTownPilot said:
That stuff is subject to change at any time with or without prior notice without a contract.

All SkyWest pilots have is an "agreement" to come to work for X pay, not a legally binding contract.
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Good point. I wasn't looking at it quite like that.

PCL_128 said:
Yeah, keep laughing, kid. The way the non-union airlines destroy our bargaining leverage is really funny. :sarcasm: :rolleyes:
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I understand the argument that non-union airlines diminish bargaining power for the union guys and I couldn't agree more. I'm just laughing because I knew someone was gonna jump on me right away about Skywest being non-union and thus being scabs. :sarcasm:

I'm still learning and just trying to keep a fairly open mind, about union and non-union airlines, as I start looking for where I want to head for a career in about a year when I graduate. If I wasn't looking for advice and a good education on these things I'd be on here posting like crazy trying to act like I know what I'm talking about.

I'm just completely clueless about all the regional airlines and how in the world I'm supposed to choose 1 from the 343,920,483 airlines that are out there. Where do I start to look?
 
bronco21016 said:
I'm just completely clueless about all the regional airlines and how in the world I'm supposed to choose 1 from the 343,920,483 airlines that are out there. Where do I start to look?
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Start by going to Airline Pilot Central (airlinepilotcentral.com) and clicking on the "Airlines" link on the left. Some of the regionals will be listed under the "Nationals" section. Each airline has its own page with info on payrates, fleet size, retirement, etc... They also tell what union represents each pilot group. If you click on an airline and it says "Union: None," then you should cross it off your list of prospective employers.
 
I've been to APC several times. I'm looking for more information about things like Duty Rigs and what kind of benefits are offered and what the work rules are like. APC has some of the airline contracts but they're mostly for the majors. I hear these kinds of things brought up several times in the forums. Just wondering where people get this information from other than just reading it in the forums.
 
For that sort of detail you'll have to either get copies of the contracts somehow or talk to pilots that work there. I don't know of anywhere on the internets that provides that level of detail.
 
PCL_128 said:
For that sort of detail you'll have to either get copies of the contracts somehow or talk to pilots that work there. I don't know of anywhere on the internets that provides that level of detail.
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Do regional pilots typically go looking for that much duty when they're deciding where to go?

When I talk to people at school who are heading off to the airlines you ask them why they choose where they go and they just say stuff like "That's where everyone else goes..." or "The base is close to home..."

I don't wanna make my choice on something this big based on maybe a total of 2 factors. I'd kinda like to know where I'm going.
 
SteveC said:
Personally I think the anti-non-union rhetoric is getting too heavy. Counterproductive. Turns people off. That's a SteveC user (not moderator) opinion.
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I kinda feel the same way Steve. I understand the reasons behind not liking non-union airlines but people need to tone it down a bit. We get the idea. At least those of us who are at least half way paying attention.
 
bronco21016 said:
Do regional pilots typically go looking for that much duty when they're deciding where to go?

When I talk to people at school who are heading off to the airlines you ask them why they choose where they go and they just say stuff like "That's where everyone else goes..." or "The base is close to home..."

I don't wanna make my choice on something this big based on maybe a total of 2 factors. I'd kinda like to know where I'm going.
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You'll find that most regional newhires are pretty clueless. They don't have any idea how contracts work, what unions are, etc... Say "duty rig" to a typical first year FO at any regional and he'll give you a deer in the headlights look. If you want the overall best contracts for pay and QOL, then ExpressJet and ASA are your best bets.
 
SteveC said:
No, it's not. Not in the same league, much less ball park.



Personally I think the anti-non-union rhetoric is getting too heavy. Counterproductive. Turns people off. That's a SteveC user (not moderator) opinion.
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I could get by with the non union gigs if they didn't always happen to be undercutting folks that are trying to raise the bar.

Colgan flying 76 seat aircraft for less than Express is operating 50 seat aircraft? That's counter productive.

Skywest flying 86 seat aircraft for less than Express is operating 50 seat aircraft? That's counter productive.

I'll stop towing the union line on those shops as soon as they're not low balling other folks while touting "controlling costs," knowing full well the only cost an airline can control are it's labor costs.

EDIT: Just to clarify something, I think that considering non union pilots the same as scabs is BS. They haven't crossed any picket lines and they're not actively union busting. Lowering the bar? Of course. Flying without ANY protection from their company? Every day! But scabs? It simply doesn't meet the definition.
 
PCL_128 said:
If you want the overall best contracts for pay and QOL, then ExpressJet and ASA are your best bets.
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I don't like ASA's one base and ExpressJet I'm told is going down the tubes. :panic:

I'm glad I still have a lot of time before I have to make a decision like this.

PCL_128 said:
You'll find that most regional newhires are pretty clueless. They don't have any idea how contracts work, what unions are, etc... Say "duty rig" to a typical first year FO at any regional and he'll give you a deer in the headlights look.
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Scary.
 
SteveC said:
Personally I think the anti-non-union rhetoric is getting too heavy. Counterproductive. Turns people off. That's a SteveC user (not moderator) opinion.
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It actually needs to go the other way. It needs to be more intense. Pilots need to know that they'll be shunned if they go the non-union route. If they know that they'll never be able to jumpseat or move on in their careers, then they'll stop applying at non-union operators.

I was just talking with a couple of influential members of the ALPA National leadership last week. Both of them made comments that surprised me about jumpseat access. Said one, "it's about time that we start denying jumpseats to these non-union pilots. Jumpseat wars are a mess, but this has gone on too long." You would have thought that it was Velo talking, but it was a very well-respected member of the leadership. This sort of talk would have been unheard of just a year ago, but people are getting fed up.
 
bronco21016 said:
I don't like ASA's one base and ExpressJet I'm told is going down the tubes. :panic:

I'm glad I still have a lot of time before I have to make a decision like this.



Scary.
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Express isn't going down the tubes. We've stopped hiring until the spring and we're in a transition period, but I haven't gotten my furlough notice yet.

By the time you're looking to apply to the regionals Skywest might own Delta and Northwest might open a Kalamazoo base.
 
That's about it jtrain.... When I finally get to that point nothing will be the same anyways.
 
SteveC said:
Personally I think the anti-non-union rhetoric is getting too heavy. Counterproductive. Turns people off. That's a SteveC user (not moderator) opinion.
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I agree completely.

Thing is, I have worked for a non-union carrier before; it is the company that jump started my career. We had a failed ALPA drive at that company, so this is all something I have seen before. I now work at an ALPA carrier, so it helps me understand the viewpoints from both sides. I am not saying one is better than the other, but it helps clarify the thought processes of both parties.

I do not agree with the results of the SkyWest pay proposal vote, but I also do not agree with throwing the entire pilot group under the bus.
 
PCL_128 said:
Both are methods of destroying bargaining leverage. Both groups stab the rest of the profession in the back. They are two sides of the same coin.
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I'd like to know your position on union companies that do the same, such as GoJets, Freedom, and GO!/Mesa.
 
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