SKYW Pay package results

mastermags said:
Marcus, you were not at ASA during the time that negotiations were going on. Let me tell you, people CARED. The ones that didn't care were the..... yep, first year FO's. ALPA better start eduacating the new guys because these new FO's have a large line ahead of them in reaching the majors. Come negotiation time it will be up to them to improve the contracts again.

Oh yeah, and the Big 10 sucks.
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Of course people cared. At ASA people cared very much about the new contract, but the 700 captains cared a whole lot more. But the 200 pilots were not willing to fight for EVEN more like the 700 guys were. Thats what Im talking about. I bet if ASA was a major or career company we would still be fighting for a contract right now. Also, when ASA got the new contract everyone said it was great. SKW just basically matched our contract and everyone says its terrible. Thats what I'm trying to figure out.
 
Ophir said:
You're wrong John. But that is a discussion you and I can one on one.


I guess I need to make a sticker that says "39%er and 29%er". I am shocked this passed. I thought for once we were going to get together as a pilot group.
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Chuck's right, John. There is a great deal of cultural socialization in Utah (you can guess the source) to not question authority in any of its forms--be it elected leaders, employers, church leaders (especially) or even the head of household. Much of it is based on the belief that everyone in the community abides by the whole "do unto others as you'd have them do unto you" bit and therefore isn't out to screw you, but the reality is that many unscrupulous Utahns take advantage of this, particularly in business dealings.

There's even more to the story, but I'll share that with you offline sometime.
 
PCL_128 said:
Marcus, the problem is that they didn't match your contract. They still don't even have a real payrate for the 50+ seaters.
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Just to make it clear with the new SKYW payscale,

Is yr 1 pay still at $19 an hour and not in the neighborhood of the $23 an hour we now have at ASA?
 
Just compared the 2 rates, and guess what? For the first few years.....ASA is paid better. They start to even out around year 4 or so, though. So, sorry Marcus. They didn't match ASA's contract when it comes to pay rates. In fact, it looks like the short termers that are there to "get in and get out" are the ones that got screwed. But they don't mind, right?
 
I have no clue what you're talking about Kellwolf:

pay_asa2007.gif

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First year FO at ASA on the -700 gets $23 an hour. Same person at Skywest gets $22. Second year FO at ASA on the -700 gets $38, same person at Skywest gets $37. They finally even out at year 3. Someone that's in to get there time and get out is planning on NOT being an FO at year 3, right?

Let's look at CAs. First year CA at ASA $61, Skywest $60. 2nd year at ASA, $62. Skywest, $63. Once again, evens out at year 3.

So, Skywest did NOT match ASA's contract as you said here:

Also, when ASA got the new contract everyone said it was great. SKW just basically matched our contract and everyone says its terrible. Thats what I'm trying to figure out.
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Now, Skywest's CA rates on the -200 are better, so I will give them that. However, the object of the game is to BUILD on other contracts, not just match them. To be honest, I didn't think ASA's pay rates were that huge of a step. If you compare them to what we have now at Pinnacle (negotiated back in 1999), it's only about $1/hr difference on the CA side the first couple of years and $4/hr the 3rd and 4th years. Comparing 2007 dollars with 1999 dollars, you have MORE buying power in 99 than in 07 factoing in inflation. The part of the Skywest proposal that ticked me off wasn't in the pay rates on APC, it was the meger COLA raise of 1% that won't even keep up with inflation. Essentially, in buying power, you're taking a pay CUT on that COLA "raise."

Don't just look at pay rates. You have to look at the intagibles. ASA's contract winnings were in the work rules, not necessarily the pay rates. The duty/trip rigs you guys got there would be something we'd KILL for here.
 
kellwolf said:
The duty/trip rigs you guys got there would be something we'd KILL for here.
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Therin lies the rub. I was chatting with an Eagle captain (15 year) on my commute home yesterday and he couldn't believe that we have duty rig and cancellation pay. I couldn't believe they didn't! We compared some other items and were each surprised how much we differed, some for the better some for the worse.

I try my best to stay out of the 'my airline is better than yours' junk, but the SKYW bashing over pay gets old. Not saying you are bashing Steve, just in general. I know the new pay package sucks, and we should have done better but as you accurately said you have to look at the big picture. QOL stuff is highly important.

If someone wanted to geek out and make a giant spreadsheet on all the airlines (legacy, LCC, regional, etc) and assign a points system to score them, I think we would be amazed at who has certain pros/cons. No one really knows though, since none of us have worked at every airline in each of our respective career points. I couldn't believe the UAL narrow body guys don't have cancellation pay for duty rig either! Crazy!

Oh well, those are my musings for now :) I am just glad that my company let me come home one day early to sit reserve in DEN instead of ORD so I wouldn't get stuck in Chicago on my days off after this massive winter storm passes :)
 
MusketeerMan said:
Since it appears you know Josh, how are SKW employees treated? No, I don't work for them, but of the 15 or so I know well that do fly for them, they don't feel mistreated, regardless of what passes and doesn't pass. Let's hear from the SKW drivers on here...are you treated badly? Just curious to what those that actually know have to say.
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Well I get flamed anytime I speak up about SKW but I'll put in my $.02

Even though the new pay rates meant a HUGE raise for me, I was dissapointed with the overall package. But I'm not crying over it. As much as the anti-management advocates want to make us believe, we are treated VERY well in comparrison to nearly every other airline out there. Morale is higher here than at any company in any industry I've ever seen. That's all I have to say about that.
 
How do you know you're treated better? Has anybody made the jump from Horizon, ExpressJet or CHQ to Skywest?
 
jtrain609 said:
How do you know you're treated better? Has anybody made the jump from Horizon, ExpressJet or CHQ to Skywest?
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As a matter of fact I am good friends with two pilots who made the jump from Horizon, and they both think SkyWest is a better place to work HANDS DOWN! Horizon is the highest paid regional in the industry so I guess pay isn't everything. I know about 25 former Mesa pilots and......well that's too easy.
 
Which was exactly the point I was trying to make, when you compare Skywest to 9E, Mesa, TSA, Colgan, etc. etc. of course it will look like God's gift to airlines.
 
You also have to look at WHY people jump ship. Is it b/c the pay sucks? Is it because they're treated badly? Or is it b/c of a commute? If you live in SLC and fly for Horizon, I'm betting Skywest would seem like god's gift since you probably wouldn't have to commute. Heck, I work at Pinnacle, and I'd rather be here based in MEM than at XJT, despite the fact that XJT has a MUCH better contract and better pay.

Just b/c someone jumps ship from one regional to another doesn't necessarily mean they were miserable and abused at their former employer. It could just mean a QOL of boost.
 
Correct. If I was moving back to Michigan, you'd better believe that I'd be bailing on Express and heading straight to 9E. You couldn't pay me enough to commute to Cleveland or Newark when I would have a base sitting right in my back yard.
 
Hootie said:
I know it's a better deal to go be a street captain at Mesaba than to come be an FO at Skywest. But even without this crappy pay raise, skippers at Skywest make more in every aspect on every seat aircraft than Mesaba guys. Best of luck to you wherever you end up, but lets keep it real.
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I'm trying to keep it real, brother! Falconvalley likes to represent the middle of the road most of the time, but here I find too many things outside my current interests. I know a bunch of syx folks who are going giggity about Skywest and I'm really excited for them. You have to admit, though that even more pay would be a good thing, right? I just think that they deserve better overall. They've done some great things for their company this year. They've earned it. But the vote is in and the majority have decided what they think they've earned.
 
So much information that I can't even begin to comprehend in my little commercial pilot head.

First, what airline is 9E that you guys mention in the last couple of posts?

Second, besides the pay and lack of union what is it that is so bad about Skywest? I know everyone says don't pick where you go based on bases etc. but it's hard to turn down an airline operating out of Denver when Denver is where you want to be.

I'm just trying to take all of this in on where I want to go work for. I'm going to start CFIing within the next 2 months which puts me about 1-1/2 years out from getting a job assuming hiring keeps up like it is. I hear everyone say things like don't go here don't go there for all kinds of reasons. My question is where do you guys find this information about stuff like QOL at certain places? I know APC has pay scales but they don't give contract details or anything like that.

I guess I'm a little off topic but seeing all this crazy information just sort of overflows my mind.
 
PCL_128 said:
You shouldn't need any reason not to work there other than them being non-union. That should be a deal breaker.
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Haha. I kinda figured someone would say something like that. While I am for unions I'm not going to make whether or not an airline is union be a deal breaker as long as work rules and pay are reasonable.

My main question is where do I go to research stuff like QOL and how scheduling works etc.?
 
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