skybus

[zmiller4]

They're working on it. Plus they don't have horrendously sub-standard pay rates.

Nope...but soon, we're going to have sub-ASA rates! I can't imagine that their TA isn't going to significantly help the ALPA drive here...:yar:

I need to send some ASA folks a couple of cases of beer.

 

[Gonzo]

True. But we are operating under a 7 year old contract that's been in negotiations for 3 years. The TA that we just turned down would have paid us far more than JetBlue pilots, and would have matched industry standard with the legacies. We turned it down because we felt that it wasn't enough. That's the big difference here: we have the power to turn it down and fight for more until we get the contract that we deserve. The JetBlue pilots simply have to take whatever management throws at them. They have no power to improve the profession.

For a long time Airtran pilots said ok to whatever management wanted. Go ask a Delta 737 CA who he blames for his low pay? I know you guys are working on a new contract I also know the old contract sucked because the pilot group was weak. From the looks of it most of the scabs are gone the pilot group is willing to fight

No, I talk about not going to non-union carriers that don't offer industry-standard pay. At a union carrier, the pay may be below standard now, but you are able to fight for more to improve the profession. That's what Velo and I keep stressing here.

So non-union carriers that have good pay are ok?

I was a union rep for 5 years doing my part to jack up the house. And for the record, PCL was not close to the lowest paid. When I went to work for PCL, the pay was industry standard for a CRJ operator. .

I hope you do the same at Airtran

And AirTran isn't even close to the lowest paid, even with our 7 year-old contract. Our 717 Captains make more than widebody Captains at many legacies.

Out of all the 121 airlines that fly the 737 the only one you make more money then is ATA.

 

[mikecweb]

I'm sorry I just don't buy the whole arguement that sub-standard pay is ok as long as the airline has a union.
Also what are your thoughts on Allegiant? Can they ride? Are the scabby?

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

For a long time Airtran pilots said ok to whatever management wanted. Go ask a Delta 737 CA who he blames for his low pay? I know you guys are working on a new contract I also know the old contract sucked because the pilot group was weak. From the looks of it most of the scabs are gone the pilot group is willing to fight

Only about 20 SCABs still left on the seniority list. You're right, years ago AirTran was contributing to the downward pressure on wages. That's no longer the case. I wouldn't have gone to work for AAI in the days that they were making far less than the DAL guys across the ramp.

So non-union carriers that have good pay are ok?

A non-union start-up with good pay/QOL would be fine as long as they start working on getting union representation within the first few years. If a few years went by and there was no sign of a union drive on the horizon, then that would certainly not be ok. At some point you have to step up to the plate and start contributing to the cause.

Out of all the 121 airlines that fly the 737 the only one you make more money then is ATA.

That's only true for the FO rates. Our Captain rates match or exceed just about everybody except SWA, FDX, and UPS.

 

[Gonzo]

[/color]Only about 20 SCABs still left on the seniority list. You're right, years ago AirTran was contributing to the downward pressure on wages. That's no longer the case. I wouldn't have gone to work for AAI in the days that they were making far less than the DAL guys across the ramp.

A non-union start-up with good pay/QOL would be fine as long as they start working on getting union representation within the first few years. If a few years went by and there was no sign of a union drive on the horizon, then that would certainly not be ok. At some point you have to step up to the plate and start contributing to the cause.

It took Airtran almost 11 years before they steped up to the plate why not give everyone the same time. By my math JetBlue has 4 more years togo.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

It took Airtran almost 11 years before they steped up to the plate why not give everyone the same time. By my math JetBlue has 4 more years togo.

Not sure what you're talking about. AirTran has been unionized even before the merger with ValuJet. Before the merger, AirTran pilots were represented by the AirTran Pilots Association. After the merger, the NPA was the surviving union. AirTran was unionized even during the early days.

 

[SeanD]

I'm sorry I just don't buy the whole arguement that sub-standard pay is ok as long as the airline has a union.
Also what are your thoughts on Allegiant? Can they ride? Are the scabby?

Because it takes a real man to fly an MD-80. extreme . Really though I wonder what kind of impression Allegiant would have on the union pilots if the aircraft were all A320s or E170s.

 

[Soul Brotha']

Gentlemen and the ladies, this had been one of the best posts I have seen in a while.

 

[DE727UPS]

"Don, if you want the guys name, I'd be more than happy to send it to you in a PM just in case he tries to JS on you guys."

No thanks, but next time you see him you might mention UPS doesn't give their own pilots a discount, either. Got a nifty leather jacket, though...

I'll admint I don't know anything about section 115 of the uniform ALPA code. I just see using the jumpseat to push a personal agenda as being improper. After all, a "union" is all about being a team player. Bumping of non-union guys when your airline has an agreement with them just doesn't seem right to me. What Velo needs to do is volunteer to be on his jumpseat committe, lobby to have non-union airlines removed from the recip list, have his pilot group VOTE on whether this is a good idea. Then, you'd be acting if good faith towards the other commuting pilots at your own airline.

And Velo, you might want to consider that you were raped by binding arbitration and your own management.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

After all, a "union" is all about being a team player.

Correct. And the non-union pilots aren't being team players by joining the labor movement.

And Velo, you might want to consider that you were raped by binding arbitration and your own management.

Where do you think the arbitrator came up with his pay rates? He looked at JetBlue and all of the other legacies that had already taken paycuts to match them. Arbitrators don't pull things out of their posterior. This is why it's so damaging to the profession to have carriers out there doing the same work for half the pay.

 

[staplegun]

Where do you think the arbitrator came up with his pay rates? He looked at JetBlue and all of the other legacies that had already taken paycuts to match them. Arbitrators don't pull things out of their posterior. This is why it's so damaging to the profession to have carriers out there doing the same work for half the pay.

:yeahthat: X 1,000,000!!!!!


You win the kewpie doll!!!



Kevin

 

[Velocipede]

What Velo needs to do is volunteer to be on his jumpseat committe, lobby to have non-union airlines removed from the recip list, have his pilot group VOTE on whether this is a good idea. Then, you'd be acting if good faith towards the other commuting pilots at your own airline.

And Velo, you might want to consider that you were raped by binding arbitration and your own management.

1. No one votes on the reciprocal list.
2. My volunteer plate is way too full.
3. There are other pilots who are proceeding with resolutions to ban non-union pilots from the jumpseat. I'll let them carry the ball.

 

[skydog]

I love how it is Skybus and Virgin America pilots that are "lowering the bar." United, Delta, Northwest, US Air, Continental, and American pilots all gave huge concessions, but it is Skybus and Virgin America that are "lowering the bar". American's pilots created the B-scale, yet it is Skybus and Virgin America that are "lowering the bar." A dozen years ago Air Tran Captains were paid 42K a year, and had to pay for training, but it is Skybus and Virgin America that are "lowering the bar."

What was it the man said? May he who be without sin cast the first stone.

 

[derg]

Stand still.