skybus

Velocipede said:
You use your definition, Jim, I'll use mine. Skybus, Virgin and jetBlue pilots have demonstrated that they have the mentality to cross YOUR picket line. Protoscab works fine for me. Can't help it if the U.S. education system has turned out a bunch of illiterates who don't know what the prefix "proto" means.

As long as they voluntarily work at places that undercut Union pilots, they deserve virturally the same scorn as the ultimate undercutters...SCABS.
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"Demonstrated the mentality to..." ?!?
"Can't help it if the U.S. education system has turned out a bunch of illiterates who don't know what the prefix "proto" means." ??!!??
"they deserve virturally the same scorn" ?!?!?!

V, are you reading yourself? Are you thinking that this is a convincing argument? I could use the same arguments to call anyone anything I like, so long as I think they 'have demonstrated the mentality' to do... whatever, whether they had done so or had any intention to do so or not. It's a non-argument.

I agree that Skybus pilots suck, yes. But they are not scabs, by any definition. Speaking of...
 
PCL_128 said:
That's why I use that term. For some reason, many people falsely believe that the only definition of SCAB is "someone who crossed a picket line." Far be it for someone to pick up a friggin' dictionary. :rolleyes: But, to make it easier for our friends who don't know how to use a dictionary, I use the term "pseudo-SCAB." As far as I'm concerned, they're no different than SCABs, but I'll use the different term to appease the ignorant.
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I assume you're pointing this at me, so let's have a look at that definition for scab you claim to have read:

www.m-w.com said:
Main Entry: 1scab
Pronunciation: \ˈskab\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, of Scandinavian origin; akin to Old Swedish skabbr scab; akin to Old English sceabb scab, Latin scabere to scratch — more at shave
Date: 13th century

...

3(1): a worker who refuses to join a labor union (2): a union member who refuses to strike or returns to work before a strike has ended (3): a worker who accepts employment or replaces a union worker during a strike (4): one who works for less than union wages or on nonunion terms
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I'm thinking you're applying (1) and (4) here, on the idea that they apply to a non-union company. You're wrong. If there's some other definiton of 'scab' that you have learned from a reputable source, let me know.
 
CapnJim said:
I assume you're pointing this at me
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No, I'm pointing it at countless pilots who have convinced themselves that the only definition of "scab" is someone who has crossed a picket line. Coming from a long line of blue-collar union members, I know what the members of most unions use the term for, and it covers a wide range of people. Strike breakers are one group, but there are others, and that is what the definition refers to. Pilots are the only group of union members that think the definition of "scab" is so narrow.

You're wrong.
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Wow, there's a compelling argument. :sarcasm: The dictionary definition is clear, as is the understanding of the term to the vast majority of union members in this country from a wide range of unions.
 
Sez you.

And pilots are the only group of union memebers we are concerned with in this forum. So what we say goes.
 
Oh yeah, because your use of smilies, the sarcasm tag, and the argument "It's true because I said so and I heard some other people say so" is so much richer and more convincing. PCL, belive me when I say: I'm meeting force on force with you here.

If I wanted to be a jerk about it I'd say: "Your premise that the dictionary definition of 'scab' matches up to your usage of the word presumes that all workers in all industries who so not belong to a union and/or work for sub-union wages are scabs. This is tantamount to saying that the workforce of America is almost entirely peopled with scabs, which is one of the most astoundingly ignorant things that have been stated in any Jetcareers forum, ever."

But I'm trying not to be a jerk here, so I won't.
 
Just have to say the last 10 -14 posts sounds like a bunch of 3rd graders arguing over which came first - the chicken or the egg. Pretty sad for a bunch of "professionals".


Max
 
PCL_128 said:
Wow, there's a compelling argument. :sarcasm: The dictionary definition is clear, as is the understanding of the term to the vast majority of union members in this country from a wide range of unions.
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Frankly, I agree with you. Crossing the picket line is only ONE definition of scabularity. Its the harm they inflict on Union pilots that makes them scabs, whether by crossing picket lines or undermining contracts by lowering the bar by working for less.
 
Show me where you read that, V:

www.m-w.com said:
Main Entry: 1scab
Pronunciation: \ˈskab\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, of Scandinavian origin; akin to Old Swedish skabbr scab; akin to Old English sceabb scab, Latin scabere to scratch — more at shave
Date: 13th century

...

3(1): a worker who refuses to join a labor union (2): a union member who refuses to strike or returns to work before a strike has ended (3): a worker who accepts employment or replaces a union worker during a strike (4): one who works for less than union wages or on nonunion terms
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Or, if were just making up our own definitions for things, thats fine too.
I think you're a hippopotamus, acording to my own made-up definition of the word, and PCL is a didgeridoo.
 
"Frankly, I agree with you. Crossing the picket line is only ONE definition of scabularity....undermining contracts by lowering the bar by working for less"

What about entering the profession via the Gulfstream PFJ program? You could say they are working for less and lowering the bar. Do streamers fit the definition?
 
Or, better yet, flight instructors. There are instructors who have union representation- are you saying that the thousands of those who don't are scabs?
 
Sounds like Cap'n Jim has a little guilt going. I prefer the 4th definition to buttress my argument, thank you. They are non-union and work for less than union wages/benefits, considering narrowbody payrates. Of course, you could, theoretically, let jetBlue off the hook since legacy narrowbody rates have come down to their level. But, I submit, if jetBlue pilots hadn't demonstrated their willingness to work for less, creating profits for jetBlue, competing managers wouldn't have insisted on jetBlue rates.
 
Guilt? Try logic. If they are non-union, please explain to me how they are working for less than union wages. Refrence my example presented to PCL as well as the example of non-union flight instructors.
 
"What Gus is trying to say..." is he thinks the same of these airlines as you two do. But attaching the term scab to them lowers the weight of the term scab. It's like the first time you said the F-word. It felt really strong and you almost felt weird saying it. Now after decades of using it you can say eff this and eff that without missing a beat. Reserve scab for the absolute lowest of scum that cross picket lines.
I could be wrong. I probably am.
 
CapnJim said:
Oh yeah, because your use of smilies, the sarcasm tag, and the argument "It's true because I said so and I heard some other people say so" is so much richer and more convincing. PCL, belive me when I say: I'm meeting force on force with you here.
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I provided a dictionary definition. Plain and simple. That's a fact, not an opinion. If you want to try to reinterpret a simple definition, then have at it. For everyone else, the definition is clear.
 
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