Skybus on front page of Chicago Tribune

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

GIA has been hiring "off-the-street" FOs for a while now. They haven't been able to fill their vacancies with PFTers in this job market, plus JetU has been sapping away a ton of their business. So, even the FOs at GIA come out ahead compared to the other small TP operators.

 

[Kristie]

ALPA isn't concerned with it because it never affects our bargaining leverage. Never once in any carrier's negotiations have management come to the table and mentioned PFT as a reason that wages should remain low. On the other hand, in every single regional negotiations, management comes to the table and immediately begins talking about how the Mesa/GoJet/Lynx/etc.... pilots are accepting much lower rates, so "we have to accept similar wages to be competitive." That is what is affecting bargaining leverage, not PFT. PFT never has, and I'd venture to say that it never will. Not that I support PFT. I think it needs to stop, and I tell everyone not to make the same mistake I did, but the focus that so many people on this board have on PFT is misplaced. There are much bigger fish to fry. PFT is small potatoes compared to GoJet, Skybus, cabatoge, etc...

Kell's point is maybe ALPA *should* be looking at PFJ as being damaging along with those lower wage airlines....they do cause damage to the profession and they do create problems for the professionals that have to work with them....

just because they haven't seen it as high priority in the past doesn't mean they can't and/or shouldn't in the future.

GIA has been hiring "off-the-street" FOs for a while now. They haven't been able to fill their vacancies with PFTers in this job market, plus JetU has been sapping away a ton of their business. So, even the FOs at GIA come out ahead compared to the other small TP operators.

I know...that's because websites like this one are out there to educate future pilots about PFJ facilities like GIA or JetU...but we all know that as soon as GIA (and others) *can* get PFJers, they will try again...so we still need to keep up with the PFJ message and I think ALPA needs to get in the picture.

 

[Velocipede]

133 pilots work for Skybus...We are trying to make things better, and you attack us for it.

You really don't have a clue, do you?

You're 133 "me firsters" who somehow don't understand the concept of market based wages. That's the term every ATA manager uses when attempting to slash his labor costs.

And you fell for it hook, line and sinker.

Don't expect us to be happy that you're providing the example that there's AT LEAST 133 pilots who would gladly take our jobs for less than 50% of our current wage rates.

ATA views you as 133 potential strikebreakers. So do we.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Kell's point is maybe ALPA *should* be looking at PFJ as being damaging along with those lower wage airlines....they do cause damage to the profession and they do create problems for the professionals that have to work with them....

just because they haven't seen it as high priority in the past doesn't mean they can't and/or shouldn't in the future.

ALPA doesn't make it an issue and a priority because they've never seen anything to indicate that it is a significant problem. No evidence in any set of negotiations has ever indicated that PFT has negatively affected bargaining leverage. ALPA has limited resources, and with that in mind, you have to dedicate those resources to things that have already proven to be problems in the past or are likely to be problems in the future. Based on experience, ALPA hasn't seen anything to indicate that PFT will be a significant problem at any time, so they haven't dedicated precious resources to it.

Look, everyone has their pet issues. I know Doug and Don have a deep disdain for PFT and it's one of their pet issues. That's fine, but ALPA can't determine policy based on "pet issues." Policy and dedication of resources has to be based on facts, research, and strategic planning. Without anything to indicate that PFT is a significant problem or will become so, there's no reason for the Association to focus on it. It would be a waste of resources.

I know...that's because websites like this one are out there to educate future pilots about PFJ facilities like GIA or JetU...but we all know that as soon as GIA (and others) *can* get PFJers, they will try again...so we still need to keep up with the PFJ message and I think ALPA needs to get in the picture.

I have nothing against keeping up the message on here, but I think everyone needs to examine the facts and realize what the real priorities are. We've just been through an industry down-turn that saw the JetBlue wages used by managements and bankruptcy courts as the new benchmark for major airline wages in this profession. The result was a gutting of our labor agreements. That's a fact. That's why operations like Skybus and VA need to be our priority, because history is about to repeat itself. If we focus on the wrong issues (PFT), and put the real issues on the back burner, then we're going to shoot ourselves in the foot. When I see guys like Don get all worked up about PFT while giving a free pass to the real problem, I feel like banging my head against the wall. We need to prioritize and realize what the real threats to our profession are. GIA is not a threat to my wages, work rules, or retirement. Skybus is. Virgin America is. Let's fix that problem, then we can focus on the smaller issues.

 

[Velocipede]

Don can convieniently ignore the problems in the passenger industry while flying boxes at $200+ an hour.

Because they have ZERO effect on him.

 

[BobDDuck]

Don can convieniently ignore the problems in the passenger industry while flying boxes at $200+ an hour.

Because they have ZERO effect on him.

Just like you can ignore the problems at the regional level because they have (you think) zero effect on you?

How nice for you (and Don).

 

[mikecweb]

Ahhh yes another constructive thread. Velo you have still yet to answer my question, but Don is the one that ignores issues.

 

[Velocipede]

Bob,

The difference is, I don't chastize anyone with opinions on Regional flying. Nor would I, if I had the power, ban someone for expressing a contrary opinon.

There are those that have no problem with either of those actions.

 

[Kristie]

stop with the personal attacks... actually, we'll stop it for you...

you all KNOW very well by now how the rules work around here....it won't be continually tolerated.

Thanks for closing the thread.