Skybus on front page of Chicago Tribune

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O.K.,

I will agree to disagree with you. For the record: ANY 121 CASS airline can ride on the Skybus jumpseat. We have two (2) in the A319. I refuse to make anyone suffer the loss of a ride home over any argument.
 
Well, I require a Union Card in accordance with Section 115 of the ALPA Admin manual. Until you can produce one, don't bother asking for a jumpseat ride.
 
V,

<deleted> I am not even going to try and answer you. <deleted> I love that you slam the TWA/AA guys. Change their career? <deleted> They are waiting to go back after years of being furloughed.

<deleted>
 
I wouldn't touch Skybus with a ten foot pole simply because of their ranger uniforms! :D Ok, now that I have contributed absolutely nothing to this conversation, I will leave.
 
Well, I at least commend the guy for putting in an appearance here. Of the three guys from my company that went over there, two bailed within the first month (and went back to mainline). The other was in upgrade here and left to be an FO over there. I don't get that.

It will be interesting to see. If Skybus does vote in a Union (which I fully expect they will), will they magically get off everybody's #### list?

I am going to laugh pretty hard if they end up with an industry leading rate on the Airbus.
 
BobDDuck said:
If Skybus does vote in a Union (which I fully expect they will), will they magically get off everybody's #### list?
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Nope. That's enough for me to let up on the Blue dudes, but they already have industry-standard compensation. The Skybus pilots have lowered the bar to such a horrendous level that they have to actually show some results before getting off the #### list.
 
Name one airline that has started in recent times with industry leading pay and a pilot union in place on day one?

If your union can't stand up for itself at the negotiating table then what good is it? If your union is worth a damn, it shouldn't matter if a startup pays less then you.

Southwest Airlines has done more damage to this industry then Skybus, yet I don't see the jumpseat brigade denying them. It's sad that if Skybus by some miracle did succeed and brought in a union and yes someday offered industry leading pay, you would then allow those guys a ride home. Yet in the mean time the guys that worked to improve things we're shown the door when trying to get home.

Doesn't make sense to me. But then again it's your jumpseat and your ego.
 
mikecweb said:
If your union can't stand up for itself at the negotiating table then what good is it? If your union is worth a damn, it shouldn't matter if a startup pays less then you.
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That's a nice thought, but it's not reality. A union can only do so much. Small differences in pay can be overcome, but a pilot group doing your job for a third of what you're doing it for? Nope, you can't avoid the damage from that.
 
mikecweb said:
Name one airline that has started in recent times with industry leading pay and a pilot union in place on day one?
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Compass. :)


Just for SnGs I snuck a peek at Virgin America's pay rates. Um....anyone looked at those. They're actually pretty darn good.
 
Nope. Pay's better than Spirit and comparable AirTran. Okay. AirTran CAs make $7 more the first year....but only $2 more 2nd year. AirTran FO makes $1 less the first year....then it flips to them making $1 more the other years. Back on the CA side, AirTran CAs are within $1-2 of VA's CAs. So, if VA's pay rates are a joke.....well, you can finish the rest.
 
Why do you hate Amerika?


:)

The big problem at VA is that when you upgrade you go back to year one pay. That and no work rules.
 
skybuspilot said:
You will never solve anything here. I reject your argument.
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:yup::yup::yup::yup::yup::yup::yup::yup:

BobDDuck said:
I am going to laugh pretty hard if they end up with an industry leading rate on the Airbus.
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I think you're pretty safe. They won't last long enough.

PCL_128 said:
Nope. That's enough for me to let up on the Blue dudes, but they already have industry-standard compensation. The Skybus pilots have lowered the bar to such a horrendous level that they have to actually show some results before getting off the #### list.
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Unfortunately, the B6 guys reached industry standard because the bankruptcy court lowered the bar to their level. But, Amen to the rest of your thought.

mikecweb said:
Southwest Airlines has done more damage to this industry then Skybus
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What's the difference between $196 and $65? Its the difference between LUV and SX pay. So give me a break on bashing LUV.

PCL_128 said:
That's a nice thought, but it's not reality. A union can only do so much. Small differences in pay can be overcome, but a pilot group doing your job for a third of what you're doing it for? Nope, you can't avoid the damage from that.
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And another AMEN!

kellwolf said:
Just for SnGs I snuck a peek at Virgin America's pay rates. Um....anyone looked at those. They're actually pretty darn good.
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Please. Current VA Capts. make $95 an hour. In October when they're 2 years old, they'll make $100 an hour. $5 an hour raise! Yowza! Alert the Press!

Its disengenuous to compare a rate that no one is earning, so fugetaboutit.

And, don't forget. Upgrades at VA go to 1st year Captain pay. So, they've agreed to work for substandard wages for the 1st 5 years of employment as a Captain. In colonial America, that was called indentured servitude.
 
Let's compare a career progression with an upgrade at year 4, Kell:

Year VA AAI

1 $37k $36k
2 $46k $47k
3 $50k $51k
4 $79k $94k
5 $84k $100k

And it just keeps getting worse the longer you go. Not to mention our pretty good pre-9/11 era work rules, our 10.5% B-fund compared to their 3% 401k matching, etc... And the really sad part? We're comparing brand new rates at VA to rates negotiated at AAI 7 years ago!!! Our rates in our failed TA were 20% higher, and we considered those to be unacceptable. Nothing is "good" about either set of payrates, but VA's entire compensation package is a joke.
 
A B-fund can't disappear. It's in your own name just like a 401k. The only difference is that there are higher limits on how much can be contributed each year, and the company contributes 10.5% without you having to contribute a dime. It's in no risk of going anywhere. You're thinking of an A-fund.
 
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