Velocipede
New Member
Except consider that the Seattle/Vancouver market they're selling tickets to is Bellingham, WA. An hour and a half drive to SEA and an hour to YVR (with a border crossing!).
What a lowlife outfit.
Skybus=$10 Tickets
- Thread starter Champcar
- Start date
Except consider that the Seattle/Vancouver market they're selling tickets to is Bellingham, WA. An hour and a half drive to SEA and an hour to YVR (with a border crossing!).
What a lowlife outfit.
I wasn't clear, but the I was referring to the flying into small communities part which seemed to be one of the problems the original poster had with Skybus's strategy.
We can argue the semantics of the business model - certainly the nickel and dime strategy for everything is part of it, but so is the "we're never late" boast, and that's only going to happen if they operate into un-crowded airports.
And forgive me for saying it - but have you looked at our low-life passengers lately?
PurduePilot
New Member
I believe upthread someone stated this airline will work here because RyanAir works over in Europe.
I would argue that we're a different culture here. Yeah, we all want a bargain fare but the average American isn't going to be subjected to the kind of conditions this airline boasts.
We want a comfortable seat, inflight entertainment and a light snack for the price of our ticket.
I believe a good example would be to compare the hotel rooms in the US to what they have in Europe. In Europe all you get is four walls and roof -- their "five star" is comparable to Motel 6 here.
I would argue that we're a different culture here. Yeah, we all want a bargain fare but the average American isn't going to be subjected to the kind of conditions this airline boasts.
We want a comfortable seat, inflight entertainment and a light snack for the price of our ticket.
I believe a good example would be to compare the hotel rooms in the US to what they have in Europe. In Europe all you get is four walls and roof -- their "five star" is comparable to Motel 6 here.
Highly doubt that.
We'll see - but I disagree - I think the majority of the airline flying public will buy the cheapest ticket regardless of pretty much anything else.
PurduePilot
New Member
Dig deeper than the fare...
I don't think their business plan will work.
For one thing, if you're going to hub -- hub. Have connections. It doesn't matter if you're a new airline or a legacy.
How are they going to make PTP work flying from CMH to BLI or PSM? I can't imagine that they have the traffic for that. When I flew JetBlue from CMH to JFK, the 190 was barely filled (and this was Thanksgiving weekend).
Also, there's a lot of shady things going on with that airline. Check out the vacation link tab. They send you a page advertising vacation packages to destinations they don't even serve. Then when you call the number, you get asked a bunch of questions from "how many members of your family are there" to "estimate your yearly income." Then it turns out to be a scam to get you to buy in a condo.
On top of it all, they sell your information to telemarketers!
Then there's no telephone numbers or staffing at the airport. What if I have a question that can't be answered via the internet or a problem solved by a kiosk?
Then someone over on Airliners.net brought up the good point of how this airline is going to comply with the ADA if they're not going to use jetbridges.
I don't think this airline was thought out. It seems as if a bunch of frat guys from Harvard with a business degree got together (and had more money than brains) and decided to start an airline that would offer cheap fares.
By the way, it seems as if their flight attendents' salary will be commission-based. Are they going to harass me until I buy that $2.50 can of coke? I can see this plan going downhill quick.
In addition, what are their pilot minimums? I looked on their page and can't find it. Since I can't find any... you think 1000/100 is enough to get me aboard? Might as well try, at least I'll get A319 time.
I don't think their business plan will work.
For one thing, if you're going to hub -- hub. Have connections. It doesn't matter if you're a new airline or a legacy.
How are they going to make PTP work flying from CMH to BLI or PSM? I can't imagine that they have the traffic for that. When I flew JetBlue from CMH to JFK, the 190 was barely filled (and this was Thanksgiving weekend).
Also, there's a lot of shady things going on with that airline. Check out the vacation link tab. They send you a page advertising vacation packages to destinations they don't even serve. Then when you call the number, you get asked a bunch of questions from "how many members of your family are there" to "estimate your yearly income." Then it turns out to be a scam to get you to buy in a condo.
On top of it all, they sell your information to telemarketers!
Then there's no telephone numbers or staffing at the airport. What if I have a question that can't be answered via the internet or a problem solved by a kiosk?
Then someone over on Airliners.net brought up the good point of how this airline is going to comply with the ADA if they're not going to use jetbridges.
I don't think this airline was thought out. It seems as if a bunch of frat guys from Harvard with a business degree got together (and had more money than brains) and decided to start an airline that would offer cheap fares.
By the way, it seems as if their flight attendents' salary will be commission-based. Are they going to harass me until I buy that $2.50 can of coke? I can see this plan going downhill quick.
In addition, what are their pilot minimums? I looked on their page and can't find it. Since I can't find any... you think 1000/100 is enough to get me aboard? Might as well try, at least I'll get A319 time.
Well clearly they are not - but they're not going to hub - the whole crap about exiting security, re-claiming your bagagge and re-checking it makes that a complete non-starter. I predict they will, in short order, start offering point to point traffic, once they have enough planes and enough pilots - out of the gate they want a list of destinations, and the only way they can do that with their current planes and pilots is through CMH.
Shady or innovative - it's all in the eye of the beholder.
I hear that you need Jet PIC to be an FO - insurance reasons.
PurduePilot
New Member
Let's say I want to go from PSM to GSO on this airline. I can't.
If they're gonna go PTP, then every destination will have to be a hub to their other destinations.
The closest thing that seems to work is SWA, but look at their models. They don't just serve a destination with a few flights, they come in with 50 or 60 flights a day.
If they're gonna go PTP, then every destination will have to be a hub to their other destinations.
The closest thing that seems to work is SWA, but look at their models. They don't just serve a destination with a few flights, they come in with 50 or 60 flights a day.
bike21
9-5 Ruins Lives
Fo' realz?
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
I disagree. I think passengers want the best VALUE, not necessarily the best PRICE. Initially, they'll think the $10 fare is a godsend....until they see all the other fees tacked on. Then they'll say the airline is sneaky, underhanded and charging hidden fees. There'll probably be some false advertising suits, too. They won't stick b/c the people didn't research what they were getting, they just saw the "$10 non-stop from CMH-FLL!1!!!11!" and didn't read any further. This will more than likely lead to a LOT of one time fliers on the airline. Just enough to make the initial investment captial back, bankrupt the company, sell the airplanes and let the owners retire in luxury.
Oh, and SWA advertises service to Manchest, NH and Hartford, CT. They don't sell it as Boston. DAL is still Dallas and ISP is still New York (well, Long Island but close enough). Smaller airports, but not an hour away from the destination's they're named for. It's not like SWA flies inot SAV and announces it as non-stop to ATL.
Oh, and SWA advertises service to Manchest, NH and Hartford, CT. They don't sell it as Boston. DAL is still Dallas and ISP is still New York (well, Long Island but close enough). Smaller airports, but not an hour away from the destination's they're named for. It's not like SWA flies inot SAV and announces it as non-stop to ATL.
A $10 fare, plus all the fees and taxes, or a $100 fare, plus all the fees and taxes. It's the same bait and switch either way - but if the base fare is lower the overall price will be lower.
Plus you have to remember - the majority of people fly a few times a year - and they'll put up with an enormous amount of hassle to save $5. I, personally, don't believe the average leisure traveller cold recognise VALUE if it walked up and introduced itself and gave them a business card.
a previous poster said the Ryanair model wouldn't work in the US becasue Europeans are willing to put up with poorer conditions/service/etc....I would argue the opposite--every European I know refuses to fly on most US Airlines (at least transcon) because of their "poor service/seating." I know tons of Euro folks who pay $200 extra to fly Swiss, LH, BA, etc. just for the service.
Does Wal-Mart work in Europe--not as well as it does here.
One additional point--CVG traffic WILL start flying to those destinations outta CMH since Delta's dominance of CVG makes it ungodly expensive to fly RTs terminating in CVG. I have tons of friends in Cincinnati who regularly take the greyhound/megabus it to Indy, SDF, and CMH to catch Southwest flights.
While I am not a fan of this outfit one bit, you have to remember that in the 70s everyone was saying the same exact things about why SWA would fail...all of your arguments were thrown around about SWA also "business travelers won't do it, people won't put up with that, etc. etc."....although I would give you the fact that a lotta SWA low prices come from fuel contracts, structure, and all-73 fleet.
Does Wal-Mart work in Europe--not as well as it does here.
One additional point--CVG traffic WILL start flying to those destinations outta CMH since Delta's dominance of CVG makes it ungodly expensive to fly RTs terminating in CVG. I have tons of friends in Cincinnati who regularly take the greyhound/megabus it to Indy, SDF, and CMH to catch Southwest flights.
While I am not a fan of this outfit one bit, you have to remember that in the 70s everyone was saying the same exact things about why SWA would fail...all of your arguments were thrown around about SWA also "business travelers won't do it, people won't put up with that, etc. etc."....although I would give you the fact that a lotta SWA low prices come from fuel contracts, structure, and all-73 fleet.
Apparently not! My cousin called me today from Cincy because she's coming out to visit me in July. She called to ask me if I'd ever heard of an airline called Skybus, out of Columbus. Apparently they had a $100 fare from CMH to SFO and a return fare of $125 for mid-July. United was the next best deal at $338 roundtrip. I told her to run, not walk, to United. She asked me why? (she's a cardiac surgical nurse, not in the travel biz) I told her to consider the summer travel frenzy, delays, weather, and an unproven airline with basically no proven flights in and out of SFO, and compare it to the quantity of United flights in and out of SFO. I told her to consider the odds of being stranded, as well as the odds of getting on a legacy flight (with summer load factors) to SFO after being booked and bumped on Skybus.
I'm not willing to put my family or clients on Skybus. They can book it theirselves if they want, but I'm not going to.
ComplexHiAv8r
Well-Known Member
And you think UAL through ORD is going to be on-time???
I actually met multiple people on the Cinci area over the weekend getting tickets for the first few weeks of service, to try them out, and willing to risk the $40 to see what it is about.
Also, what is your thought on SWA tickets CMH-LAX for $50 oneway. just about the same dont you think??
Also, did they look at UAL to DAY? Ok, its a gojet -700, but it avoids ORD (with DEN).
I actually met multiple people on the Cinci area over the weekend getting tickets for the first few weeks of service, to try them out, and willing to risk the $40 to see what it is about.
Also, what is your thought on SWA tickets CMH-LAX for $50 oneway. just about the same dont you think??
Also, did they look at UAL to DAY? Ok, its a gojet -700, but it avoids ORD (with DEN).