Sim Partner Dragging Me Down

SpiraMirabilis said:
Thats a high wash-out rate. I wonder why its so high? Are the flight safety instructors just terrible?
Click to expand...

I was wondering that myself. A wash out rate that high, either HR is doing a hideous job screening applicants or there's a training meltdown somewhere. We had a couple of upgrade classes with a high washout rate, so they re-designed upgrade training. Now we only lose a couple per class instead of a couple of CLASSES.
 
I think they were really desperate for people when they started hiring for my class. I'm pretty sure they just offered a job to almost everybody who showed up. I honestly didn't think I interviewed that well. I have relatively low total time, but a decent amount of multi. They stumped me on a couple of questions I should have known but offered the job anyway.

As for the flight safety instructors, I don't know. I had an old guy who flew DC-3's, DC-9's, 757/767, Fokker-27's, etc and I thought he was pretty good. He yelled and cussed at us a lot but pushed us hard and I felt pretty prepared for the checkride. Our ground school classes were a mess and a bunch of guys failed their orals. We had 4 different instructors within the first week or 2 due to sickness, vacations, etc and I don't think that helped. The first 3 days of ground school were spent mostly sitting around while we waited for the whole class to complete all their paperwork and go to the airport to get fingerprinted. It was basically a mess. Not only that, but we got some conflicting information about the same topic from one instructor to the next so it was hard to figure out what to believe sometimes.

Overall though, if you put the effort in and were somewhat intelligent, it was doable. If I was in charge of things, I'd make quite a few changes but I'm not and don't want to start sticking my nose where it doesn't belong. Unfortunately, the FSDO in STL seems to be filled with stubborn wankers. If I were the company, I'd be lobbying a lot harder to get our 27 memory items reduced to less than 10.

For example, our memory item for Engine Failure below V1 is "Thrust Levers.....Idle or Max Reverse". For some reason, somebody thinks we're too stupid to pull the thrust levers back, but they figure we're smart enough to figure out we need to hit the brakes, thus not including that in the memory item. Some of our other memory items should be referred to as "memory stories" because of how ridiculously verbose they are.

Anyway, speaking of verbose, I think I've gone on long enough. Now to figure out what to do with my uniform that doesn't fit me. I somehow managed to lose about 45 pounds since I left for training 2 months ago and the uniform I ordered doesn't fit me at all. Ahhhh, can't wait til I'm a little more settled into all this crap. Thanks again for all the replies.
 
Is this the CRJ? We had a LOT of memory items when I first started, but they're down to like 11 or 12 now. One of them is one item, two of them are exactly the same and two are only different in one is an aileron system and the other is an elevator system.
 
We fly the ERJ's. I can understand the need for memory items, but just don't like the stupid ones. Like our Engine Failure or Fire at or After V1 is :

Maximum Takeoff Thrust..........Check
At Vr Rotate the Airplane
With positive rate of climb:
Landing Gear.........................Up
Airspeed...............................V2


In reality, it goes like this:
PNF: V1
PNF: Engine Failure
PF: Set Max Thrust
PNF: Rotate (we rotate into the command bars but leave a little gap to get V2)
PNF: Positive Climb
PF: Gear Up
PNF: Acceleration Height and so forth and so on

Do we do the items on the memory item? Yes
Do we call for them like the memory item lists them? Not even close
So why have the memory item? Because the FAA says so. Brilliant.

And actually if you followed this memory item specifically, nobody would touch the thrust levers during a V1 cut. All you'd do is check to make sure that the ATTCS took the thrust to T/O-1 thrust rating instead of forcing it into T/O-1 by moving the thrust levers past 78 degrees TLA. Whatever.
 
Copperhed51 said:
We fly the ERJ's. I can understand the need for memory items, but just don't like the stupid ones. Like our Engine Failure or Fire at or After V1 is :

Maximum Takeoff Thrust..........Check
At Vr Rotate the Airplane
With positive rate of climb:
Landing Gear.........................Up
Airspeed...............................V2


In reality, it goes like this:
PNF: V1
PNF: Engine Failure
PF: Set Max Thrust
PNF: Rotate (we rotate into the command bars but leave a little gap to get V2)
PNF: Positive Climb
PF: Gear Up
PNF: Acceleration Height and so forth and so on

Do we do the items on the memory item? Yes
Do we call for them like the memory item lists them? Not even close
So why have the memory item? Because the FAA says so. Brilliant.

And actually if you followed this memory item specifically, nobody would touch the thrust levers during a V1 cut. All you'd do is check to make sure that the ATTCS took the thrust to T/O-1 thrust rating instead of forcing it into T/O-1 by moving the thrust levers past 78 degrees TLA. Whatever.
Click to expand...

The reason that is relates to how the manual was written. The test pilots in Brazil have always said that they were always meant to be recall procedures, not "Memory Items".

However, here is the FAA's definition of emergency items (from the 8900 - See, I told you, good stuff!;)) BTW, sorry for the bold.
"3-3406. IMMEDIATE ACTION ITEMS. Immediate action items are those items accomplished from memory by crewmembers in emergency situations before the checklist is called for and read.

A. A flightcrew’s failure to correctly accomplish all immediate action items can result in a threat to continued safe flight. For example, should a flightcrew fail to close the tank valve during an engine fire procedure, leaking fuel in the engine pylon may be ignited. In such cases, the first items on the corresponding checklist must be verification that each immediate action item has been accomplished.

B. In some cases, an immediate action procedure may not be incorporated in a checklist. For example, there is no point in verifying that each item of an aborted takeoff procedure has been accomplished after the aircraft has been brought to a stop. In most cases, however, there should be a “follow-on” or “clean-up” checklist to be accomplished after the situation has been brought under control.

C. Another example of an immediate action memory item is the following statement: “All flight crewmembers shall immediately don O2 masks and report to the captain on interphone in the event of loss of cabin pressure.” In this example, the loss-of-cabin-pressure checklist would contain the immediate action memory item and subsequent follow on items to verify that each item has been accomplished."


The first sentence dooms Embraer pilots. The way the checklist pre-ramble from the Boyz in Sao Jose reads, it forces compliance with the 8900. You CAN change the items, but it takes $$$, time and convincing someone to sign off on what can be seen as a potential Lability....
 
EDUC8-or said:
When I went through initial training we were assigned partners. My partner and I were pretty much exact opposites, and he was the last person I would have picked to pair up with. As we progressed though training, we became good friends. If someone was weak in one area we didn't move on until we had it down pat. When one of us would have a rough day in the sim the other always offered encouraging words. I'd say it got to the point where if he would have busted the PC I would have been more upset than if I had busted and vice-versa. That's how things should be.
Click to expand...


Exactly what happened with me. Everybody has offered great advice. Help this guy work through as much as you possibly can. Get into that paper tiger, meet up every night over dinner and hit the books. Make it your own personal goal that you BOTH get through. If that doesn't help improve things for the next couple sims, talk to the instructor about it. I'm sure he/they have noticed the same thing going on and if you have an instructor worth their salt, they've made note of it.

Edit: And here's to reading the whole thread before responding. Congrats!
 
Polar742, I guess you're right. If it's gonna take money and a lot of effort to change things that are just nuisances, then why go through the hassle. The memory items aren't unsafe, just kinda silly in some instances.

I love talking about stuff like this just because it reminds me that there is a ridiculous amount of knowledge I will be absorbing throughout my entire career. And there will always be new kids like me coming around to ask questions to keep me thinking. I feel like I've just been dumped into the middle of the ocean and whichever way I start swimming, I'm going to encounter different obstacles and events that will shape who I am when I finally reach land. I'm looking forward to it.
 
Copperhed51 said:
Polar742, I guess you're right. If it's gonna take money and a lot of effort to change things that are just nuisances, then why go through the hassle. The memory items aren't unsafe, just kinda silly in some instances.

I love talking about stuff like this just because it reminds me that there is a ridiculous amount of knowledge I will be absorbing throughout my entire career. And there will always be new kids like me coming around to ask questions to keep me thinking. I feel like I've just been dumped into the middle of the ocean and whichever way I start swimming, I'm going to encounter different obstacles and events that will shape who I am when I finally reach land. I'm looking forward to it.
Click to expand...

Embraer Memory Items suck, no doubt. I think some operators have reduced the numbers, but most won't take the time or money to get it done. I was on the plane for 5 years and always had to re-memorize the items berfore every training event. I knew the procedures, but the verbatim items I had to relearn so I could spit them out rote-style.

The 8900 reference answers a lot of "why" questions. So when you're wondering why? check it out. Most things are in Vol 3 and 4
 
kellwolf said:
Is this the CRJ? We had a LOT of memory items when I first started, but they're down to like 11 or 12 now. One of them is one item, two of them are exactly the same and two are only different in one is an aileron system and the other is an elevator system.
Click to expand...
We've got 5.... and two of them are the same.
 
One the Embraer side of the Eagle house.. we have six.

Two are exactly the same. Two more have one item different.

The EPC in the panel eyebrow makes life easier.
 
Nothing like a making a good E145 landing and the stupid escape rope cover flying off and nailing your melon :buck:
 
See, it sounds like they've got you doing memory items where we do profiles. Things like the rejected t/o prior to V1 and the engine fire/failure after V1 are profiles for us. There isn't really a memory item that says "Airpspeed......V2" b/c the profile takes care of that. "Positive Rate" "Gear up, speed mode, bug V2." After you do it in the sim about 4-5 times (and with your sim partner during study sessions about 100 times) you just do it without even thinking.
 
kellwolf said:
See, it sounds like they've got you doing memory items where we do profiles. Things like the rejected t/o prior to V1 and the engine fire/failure after V1 are profiles for us. There isn't really a memory item that says "Airpspeed......V2" b/c the profile takes care of that. "Positive Rate" "Gear up, speed mode, bug V2." After you do it in the sim about 4-5 times (and with your sim partner during study sessions about 100 times) you just do it without even thinking.
Click to expand...

Yeah, like I was mentioning before, we really don't follow the memory items at all. We accomplish the tasks within the memory items but not the way the memory item lists them. Our callouts and profiles accomplish everything that needs to be accomplished during a takeoff with engine failure. Our V1, Vr, V2, and Vfs are already bugged before we get on the runway. The takeoff submode for our flight director is basically set to climb the airplane out at V2 on a single engine so we don't have to do a whole hell of a lot other than kick some rudder in and pull back and plant my face between her legs. (Yeah, first time I flew with a flight director, the guy told me that the airplane is my face and the command bars are a chicks legs spread open. He told me put your face in between her legs and keep it there and she'll be happy.)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top