Sierra West Airlines Hiring Lear FO's

I'm on an internship now and it is way more valuable than just getting offered a job flying with less than 500 hours..
 
Maurus said:
Just because it happens in other parts of the industry, doesn't mean it is right. A lear FO should be making $40,000/yr minimum. At $250/week that works out to be $13,000/yr. The experience alone is not worth $27,000.

Also, there are other job opportunities out there that aren't CFI jobs. I know someone that is making bank flying a C172 around the country for arial survey. Pipeline patrol, good jumper locations, arial survey, and traffic watch are all non-cfi jobs that pay better than this FO job in a Lear. SJS apparently is > making a proper living.
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Where is it written $40k/year for a Lear FO??? Heck, a 2LT in the military with flight pay does not make that.
 
jhugz said:
Industry standard is acceptable. 12,000 dollars a year before taxes is not. Doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure that out.



You're not trying hard enough. Yes I said it, you're not trying hard enough. Even during the downfall I was able to find gigs as a fresh commercial pilot that paid much, much, better then 250 dollars a week.



So basically aviation is a hobby for you rather then a career. Fantastic...how could that hurt wages?



This sums up a lot of pilots in this thread & industry. Well put.
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Again, who the heck died and made you the person who desides what a job must or must not pay??? I don't work for SW, I've never worked for them, nor do I intend to work for them. If someone with 250 hours and a fresh commercial certificate wants to give them a shot rather than shelling out several more grand for their CFI/MEI, all the power to them. Not the route I took, but there are different ways to skin a cat and short of being a scab I'm not about to tell someone how to do it or how much pay is enough. I'll warn 'em the pay is low.
Even when it comes to flight instruction and getting ratings, I will point out the hypocracy of many on this website. People who complain about the rush to the bottom, or how little an FO at Sierra West makes- but then turn around and ask where they can get their ratings for the least money. But I will not slam the CFIs who work at these operations. That's competition. It's the world we live in.
Good luck to those who want to work at SW. Know what you are getting into. Know the payscale and have a plan to cope with it.
 
Blackhawk said:
Where is it written $40k/year for a Lear FO??? Heck, a 2LT in the military with flight pay does not make that.
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There are several salary surveys put out each year by different companies and organizations. Typically two pilot light jets have FOs at around $40k Avg. Sometimes a little lower or a little higher depending on the airframe.

When going for a job like this it is ideal to go for industry standard. If you think airlines are bad, corporate and small charter can be much worse. In corporate the jet is typically the first thing to go. Same goes for expensive pilots. When the operator next door has a pilot flying for peanuts why should your employer pay more? There obviously is going to be someone out there that will take the job.

HVYMETALDRVR said:
I agree with Blackhawk 100%. But its still a damn shame, oh how far we've fallen over the past 30 years. :(
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This would be a big part of the problem. You see the issue but basically give your blessing to accepting such a low paying job. Instead of giving out the gold seal of approval, why not educate the guy? Obviously you can't keep anyone from accepting the job, but at least let them know the consequences and what is typically involved at low paying carriers. Not to mention other people may not be as nice as you. You only need to piss off one person to not get hired at a future carrier and sometimes doing something out of the industry norm can cause that.

BTW, I personally got underbid for a Lear 35 job. I was going to get 40k a year with the capt getting 85,000. Someone else bid at $450/day for the captain and $150/day for the FO and obviously won. They now manage the aircraft for the company and I lost out on a great opportunity. I don't regret it.
 
Maurus said:
There are several salary surveys put out each year by different companies and organizations. Typically two pilot light jets have FOs at around $40k Avg. Sometimes a little lower or a little higher depending on the airframe.

When going for a job like this it is ideal to go for industry standard. If you think airlines are bad, corporate and small charter can be much worse. In corporate the jet is typically the first thing to go. Same goes for expensive pilots. When the operator next door has a pilot flying for peanuts why should your employer pay more? There obviously is going to be someone out there that will take the job.



This would be a big part of the problem. You see the issue but basically give your blessing to accepting such a low paying job. Instead of giving out the gold seal of approval, why not educate the guy? Obviously you can't keep anyone from accepting the job, but at least let them know the consequences and what is typically involved at low paying carriers. Not to mention other people may not be as nice as you. You only need to piss off one person to not get hired at a future carrier and sometimes doing something out of the industry norm can cause that.

BTW, I personally got underbid for a Lear 35 job. I was going to get 40k a year with the capt getting 85,000. Someone else bid at $450/day for the captain and $150/day for the FO and obviously won. They now manage the aircraft for the company and I lost out on a great opportunity. I don't regret it.
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Ahh, the JC hypocricy strikes again.
http://forums.jetcareers.com/cfi-corner/112633-accelerated-courses.htm

Post #10 "School got the students and only could do my hourly rate.:dunno: "

http://forums.jetcareers.com/member-announcements/120261-late-but-still-good-news-hired-2.html

Hmmm. I don't think their first year Lear FO's make close to $40k
http://www.willflyforfood.com/airline-pilot-salary/95/Ameriflight.html

http://forums.jetcareers.com/cfi-corner/37893-job-opportunities.html

You did your training at a school that paid their CFIs $15/hour???? You've got to be kidding me. I made more than that as a CFI in the 1990s. So it's okay for you to pay below industry standards, but not someone else?

http://forums.jetcareers.com/aviationcareerexpo-com-networkjc-2010/116141-airport-hampton-inn.html

Why would you pay below the going rate for a hotel room? Don't you know that the cheap hotels don't pay their staff as much?? Or is it okay for you to stay at a hotel that pays the maids less than the industry average??
 
sorry I haven't been able to get back to folks and get them connected with some info, just started a new job and time/energy has been at a premium. Will try to get on that this weekend~
 
Ok I'm going to respond to this since before I moved to India, I was working at Sierra West. I was hired as a street captain for the metros. Pay was 30k with the part 135 min days off a month with a 45 minute response time. My biggest complaint was the schedule. The 45 minute callout was just terrible, not too much you can do around El Paso. At least though, the Metros were somewhat predictable so you kinda knew when you were safe or not. The lears though, they would go at all times of the day/night, very randomly. Also the lears don't fly as much either. Maintenance is crap, I've had to fly from KYIP to KELP unpressurized, with the gear down, etc etc. When you over night, unless the rooms were under like 50 bucks you had to share rooms. Were "encouraged" to fly back part 91 or you were abt to get stuck on the road for awhile. Basically they like to hire low time guys so they can push them around. Use to be a good group of pilots, but at least those who were there when I was, are gone now except one. There are many better options out there, with at least respectable pay/schedule.

=Jason-
 
jhugz said:
It always amazes me the lack of self respect most pilots have. Am I the only one who would work at a Lowe's for the twice the pay before taking a job like this? I made well more then double this as a CFI in Archers and about 50% more then this CFI'ing on the east coast. Sad...
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Kind of like the guys who pay $1300 for their multi. For 8.2 hours??? Comes out to $152/hour. Considering the going rate for an MEI is $50/hour minimum that comes out to $100/hour wet for a MEL. Does not even pay for gas.
http://forums.jetcareers.com/general-topics/56448-paid-training.html
Sorry, I guess after hotel, gas, food, DE it was $1900.
http://forums.jetcareers.com/checkride-central/65713-multi-checkride-passed.html

Or the guy who trys to get his CFI at the cheapest place.
http://forums.jetcareers.com/flight-academies-fixed-base-operators-fbo/65478-ari-ben-questionz.html
 
LOGS said:
Ok I'm going to respond to this since before I moved to India, I was working at Sierra West. I was hired as a street captain for the metros. Pay was 30k with the part 135 min days off a month with a 45 minute response time. My biggest complaint was the schedule. The 45 minute callout was just terrible, not too much you can do around El Paso. At least though, the Metros were somewhat predictable so you kinda knew when you were safe or not. The lears though, they would go at all times of the day/night, very randomly. Also the lears don't fly as much either. Maintenance is crap, I've had to fly from KYIP to KELP unpressurized, with the gear down, etc etc. When you over night, unless the rooms were under like 50 bucks you had to share rooms. Were "encouraged" to fly back part 91 or you were abt to get stuck on the road for awhile. Basically they like to hire low time guys so they can push them around. Use to be a good group of pilots, but at least those who were there when I was, are gone now except one. There are many better options out there, with at least respectable pay/schedule.

=Jason-
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Were you there when the Metro crashed in Missouri? What was the duty day? Something like 30 hours?
Now I do disagree about nothing to do around El Paso. Skiing not far away. Gliding at Horizon. Watching the tracers in Juarez.
 
Blackhawk said:
Kind of like the guys who pay $1300 for their multi. For 8.2 hours??? Comes out to $152/hour. Considering the going rate for an MEI is $50/hour minimum that comes out to $100/hour wet for a MEL. Does not even pay for gas.
http://forums.jetcareers.com/general-topics/56448-paid-training.html
Sorry, I guess after hotel, gas, food, DE it was $1900.
http://forums.jetcareers.com/checkride-central/65713-multi-checkride-passed.html

Or the guy who trys to get his CFI at the cheapest place.
http://forums.jetcareers.com/flight-academies-fixed-base-operators-fbo/65478-ari-ben-questionz.html
Click to expand...

Your argument is just hilarious. I guarantee you that guy probably doubles your yearly salary flying a MOGAS Apache and Cub on floats. What do you suggest? PPL training in a T-6 or how about a CJ2?
 
LOGS said:
Ok I'm going to respond to this since before I moved to India, I was working at Sierra West. I was hired as a street captain for the metros. Pay was 30k with the part 135 min days off a month with a 45 minute response time. My biggest complaint was the schedule. The 45 minute callout was just terrible, not too much you can do around El Paso. At least though, the Metros were somewhat predictable so you kinda knew when you were safe or not. The lears though, they would go at all times of the day/night, very randomly. Also the lears don't fly as much either. Maintenance is crap, I've had to fly from KYIP to KELP unpressurized, with the gear down, etc etc. When you over night, unless the rooms were under like 50 bucks you had to share rooms. Were "encouraged" to fly back part 91 or you were abt to get stuck on the road for awhile. Basically they like to hire low time guys so they can push them around. Use to be a good group of pilots, but at least those who were there when I was, are gone now except one. There are many better options out there, with at least respectable pay/schedule.

=Jason-
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Ouch. That sounds like the first charter gig I landed, we just had a 30 min call out. The doubling up on rooms is just sad.
 
Blackhawk said:
Ahh, the JC hypocricy strikes again.
http://forums.jetcareers.com/cfi-corner/112633-accelerated-courses.htm

Post #10 "School got the students and only could do my hourly rate.:dunno: "
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This is employment. I was employed at an hourly rate and they get me the students and airplanes to use. I believe you are an independant CFI that has more work to do. More pay for more work sounds right.

Blackhawk said:
http://forums.jetcareers.com/member-announcements/120261-late-but-still-good-news-hired-2.html

Hmmm. I don't think their first year Lear FO's make close to $40k
http://www.willflyforfood.com/airline-pilot-salary/95/Ameriflight.html
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They don't have first year Lear FOs. Actually they don't have any FOs in the Lears at all. They are all sold off except three sitting in the hanger.

I can't tell you how the Lears used to work since they don't fly them any more. As far as I know only senior guys got the right seat in the Lear. That means they most likely started at year 5 pay or better. I agree that is low, but that pay scale for the Lear is from many years ago as well. They haven't flown the Lears for a long time.

Blackhawk said:
http://forums.jetcareers.com/cfi-corner/37893-job-opportunities.html

You did your training at a school that paid their CFIs $15/hour???? You've got to be kidding me. I made more than that as a CFI in the 1990s. So it's okay for you to pay below industry standards, but not someone else?
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I was a customer. They don't just tell me "hey, we pay our staff crappy wages". I learned their wages when I was looking at getting my CFI and possibly working there.

Not to mention I ended up going to one of the more expensive schools in the industry where the instructors get a salary.

Blackhawk said:
http://forums.jetcareers.com/aviationcareerexpo-com-networkjc-2010/116141-airport-hampton-inn.html

Why would you pay below the going rate for a hotel room? Don't you know that the cheap hotels don't pay their staff as much?? Or is it okay for you to stay at a hotel that pays the maids less than the industry average??
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So using earned points after paying tons of money for their services is a bad thing? Not to mention the place I stayed in is one of the good brands for Hilton. Definitely not a cheap hotel.

Curious. Do you not give anyone the opportunity to learn? I had no guidance when coming into this industry. All I am asking is for the people that have experience to give good advice instead of giving up. No one will know what is right in the industry unless they are told. If someone more experienced gives them a "hell yeah" for a crappy job they wont learn a thing.

Apparently I am not allowed to learn from mistakes and I'm doomed to forever be paid low wages, otherwise be a hypocrite. Heaven forbid I try and use what I learned to help others.
 
Maurus said:
Apparently I am not allowed to learn from mistakes and I'm doomed to forever be paid low wages, otherwise be a hypocrite. Heaven forbid I try and use what I learned to help others.
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It is what it is.. Thank you for trying to help others, Maurus. There are people who will do these jobs, and others who dislike those companies. Different folks, different strokes. It'll all work out.
 
Man, you can't even hardly live in El Paso, TX for $250 a week!!! People on welfare earn more a week than that and they don't even have to do drug tests:insane::insane:
 
jhugz said:
Your argument is just hilarious. I guarantee you that guy probably doubles your yearly salary flying a MOGAS Apache and Cub on floats. What do you suggest? PPL training in a T-6 or how about a CJ2?
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Not being a hypocrite. Pay a CFI what he/she is worth or grow up and get more than 2 years of flying experience before you try to lecture people on what FOs should be paid.
 
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