Short-field approach speed vs normal approach speed
- Thread starter Raskolnikov
- Start date
ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
I personally like a stabilized approach for the last couple hundred feet at least of around 1.1 to 1.3 Vso if it's really short. In the Navajo, we routinely go into 3000' strips and company policy is 1.3 Vso - so really it depends on what your comfortable with, and how short the runway is. In the 206, I would go into short places with full flaps, a touch of power and a touchdown speed with the airspeed buried.
TwoTwoLeft
o- - - - - - -l
Did someone say forward slip???
ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
Flaps plus Forward slip, plus steep angle = on the ground now.
TwoTwoLeft
o- - - - - - -l
Once in a while we take our Chieftain into the "Ranch" out on Santa Cruz island. It's 1800 ft of dirt with a slight grade. The airplane is equipped with the Boundary Layer VG kit. Man, I'd be lying if I told you I knew the actual approach speed. After being configured and clearing the hill at 85, my eyes are glued outside watching the sink rate. The power is on right till the mains hit.
Pucker Factor
Well-Known Member
All else fails. Hold the doors open. Jack!!
ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
We have the BLR kit on both of ours, the airplane does absolutely incredibly when it's lightly loaded. How much flap did you have all 40 degrees (that helps a lot) or only the 25?
TwoTwoLeft
o- - - - - - -l
Yeah, with all 40 that thing falls out of the sky like a waxed manhole cover. Works great! It's amazing how much float you can still have with the BLR kit when light. I found the easiest way is to establish an appropriate sink rate and control it with power. That way, when you're ready to stop flying you just pull the power to idle.
ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
This is what I do in the PA31:
Pick your touchdown point - set 16 to 18"MP with full flaps adjust your aiming point down so that you're aiming slightly before the touchdown area.
Establish 90KIAS (should be easy that power setting puts you right there more or less - loaded up you might need a little more).
If it looks like my aiming point is moving "down" I pitch down and reduce power as necessary to maintain 90KIAS.
If it looks like my aiming point is moving "up" the windshield, I pitch "up" and add power as necessary to maintain 90KIAS.
I start my flare shortly before the aiming point goes out of view and can hit my point within 50' every time and don't have to get super slow.
At least that's what I think I do.
MidlifeFlyer
Well-Known Member
I love that line. Once in one of those stupid "pitch/power" debates, I described how I handled a serious wind shear event in a Mooney in terms of pitching for airspeed and powering for altitude. Someone else insisted that I didn't because, if I did, I would have crashed. Since I didn't crashm apparently I didn't know what I was doing
MidlifeFlyer
Well-Known Member
Sorry. If it helps any, if I had said I handled the windshear in the opposite terms, I would have probably received the same response from someone else 
Here's the story Captain Bill at my airport told me when we talked about pitch and power. This was back when he was in the airlines many moons ago and was a relatively new FO. While holding short for departure his captain, we will call him Jack, and Bill were bsing about the pitch and power debate...
Captain Jack said in response to power for altitude pitch for airspeed: "Alright Bill, we will do it your way. When we taxi to position I want you to take the yoke and go like this (moving yoke foll forward and full aft) to build up the airspeed. When you get enough speed I'll add in the power and we will take off."
Captain Jack said in response to power for altitude pitch for airspeed: "Alright Bill, we will do it your way. When we taxi to position I want you to take the yoke and go like this (moving yoke foll forward and full aft) to build up the airspeed. When you get enough speed I'll add in the power and we will take off."
MidlifeFlyer
Well-Known Member
Just as brainless as the comments I received. That tends to be the case with most religious disputes. You can change the story around easily enough. Instead of the ground, let's be in the air for Bill's response:
"Alright Jack, we will do it your way. When I bring the engines to idle, I want you to take the yoke and go like this (moving yoke full aft) to climb. "
"Alright Jack, we will do it your way. When I bring the engines to idle, I want you to take the yoke and go like this (moving yoke full aft) to climb. "
rframe
pǝʇɹǝʌuı
Captain Bill must get around, I've heard a dozen people claim this same stupid story.
TwoTwoLeft
o- - - - - - -l
The ones who seem to have the toughest time with the Pitch & Power debate fly aircraft with exuberant amounts of excess power.
I prefer to call it induced drag control.
I prefer to call it induced drag control.
Autothrust Blue
Welcome aboard the Washington State Ferries
I'm having one of those "I'm insanely jealous of your job" moments.
Yes sir. I suspect most here knows where I stand on this one from previous debates. Though when I first heard this it did give me a brief chuckle. Just like reading the article on avweb with the author obsessed with pink elephants. Laughed the first time, lost respect the second, and wanted to strangle him the subsequent 30 or so times.
Physics is tough stuff though. Especially that gravity thing.
rframe said:
Yes sir. He's was a check airman in probably 80 percent of the current 121 fleet.
Autothrust Blue
Welcome aboard the Washington State Ferries
Dumb debate is dumb. Incidentally, windshear recovery is a max angle of attack maneuver (in theory, anyway) with little attention paid to airspeed beyond trend. You didn't crash because you extracted the max performance possible out of that aircraft, right? Congrats.I love that line. Once in one of those stupid "pitch/power" debates, I described how I handled a serious wind shear event in a Mooney in terms of pitching for airspeed and powering for altitude. Someone else insisted that I didn't because, if I did, I would have crashed. Since I didn't crashm apparently I didn't know what I was doing
Pitch? Power? Who cares. "See that spot on the runway? Do whatever it takes to make the airplane contact that spot, without losing control, and without having an excess of energy upon contact with the surface."
That author is a pretty awesome guy.Yes sir. I suspect most here knows where I stand on this one from previous debates. Though when I first heard this it did give me a brief chuckle. Just like reading the article on avweb with the author obsessed with pink elephants. Laughed the first time, lost respect the second, and wanted to strangle him the subsequent 30 or so times.
Physics is tough stuff though. Especially that gravity thing.
Exactly. Why bother explaining what's happening and who cares anyway. Just make it do what I tell you and if you can't figure it out in a few hundred landings then you're not made out to be a pilot.