Severe clear ice. Thank you Kansas city

Fly_Unity said:
What would you do if you had a 250 hour co pilot come on with you, and refuse to shoot an approach with you because of "possible ice", even if you know the layer is only 500 foot thick? Would you call that "too conservative?" Or just lack of experience...
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What kind of "possible ice"? Are we talking freezing rain/drizzle/SLD or light rime? If they're reporting ice pellets at the surface, he's probably got a point. If there's a seneca in front of us getting light rime, he probably doesn't. Either way, I wouldn't call that "too conservative". Ice is bad.

-mini
 
Badass! Great job and way to keep your cool and FLY THE PLANE! One of those times when you hit your knees and thank your maker! (if you're religious in that way)
 
I have no problems taking off into icing AIRMETs, assuming there's nobody out there reporting anything more than moderate ice. SLD or PIREPs...definitely another story. Hit some FZRA coming out of BWI yesterday and that can get out of hand in a hurry.
 
minitour said:
What kind of "possible ice"? Are we talking freezing rain/drizzle/SLD or light rime? If they're reporting ice pellets at the surface, he's probably got a point. If there's a seneca in front of us getting light rime, he probably doesn't. Either way, I wouldn't call that "too conservative". Ice is bad.

-mini
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+1, and I see your point I think. In an icing equiped airplane, I'd be conservative too. If it was a '500ft think layer to descend through on an approach, I see no problem. If I have to climb through it and it's 2000ft thick, maybe, lets see what others are reporting. If I have to do a cruise segment that's resonably long with few outs, I think I'll call my wife and tell her I'll be late for dinner, rather than not making it home at all.

Decent pics (cell phone onse are usually poor). Looks like enough ice to make me nervous. Boots/Fiki/Heat or not, that could have turned out much much worse.
 
As someone who has gotten ice in non FIKI airplanes, with no possible way to shed it other than "find warmer air," I would echo the emphasis on being careful about icing conditions. I have friends who've had boots fail in moderate icing conditions. I've been in bad bad icing in FIKI airplanes. Don't screw with it. Don't be a •, but don't screw around with it. All the badass points in the world won't help you get laid if you're dead, and women don't give a damn about flying anyway, so the only people you're impressing are other pilots.
 
I'm assuming that's a CASW bird. How's the TKS work on the Commander? I ask because it seemed to be pretty much bulletproof on the 210, but on the baron...eh, not bulletproof.
 
I've heard really good things about commanders and TKS. Almost to the point id wanna flip the switch and see what happens.
 
Boris Badenov said:
I'm assuming that's a CASW bird. How's the TKS work on the Commander? I ask because it seemed to be pretty much bulletproof on the 210, but on the baron...eh, not bulletproof.
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I operate under the assumption that the system could fail at any point. If the TKS stops working, I always make sure I can make somewhere with a decent approach.

That being said, my wings and tail were 100% ice free the whole night. I felt bad for exactly 18 seconds about how much 9 gallons of TKS cost the company but other than that, flawless.
 
500b said:
I operate under the assumption that the system could fail at any point. If the TKS stops working, I always make sure I can make somewhere with a decent approach.

That being said, my wings and tail were 100% ice free the whole night. I felt bad for exactly 18 seconds about how much 9 gallons of TKS cost the company but other than that, flawless.
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Wow that long. 18 seconds is a long time to feel guilty IMHO. I have gotten ice on a 172 before, but I had many, many outs. Namley 0'msl below me. I knew it was there, and I knew sea level was @ 12c. What I didn't figure on was the rising air along the mountsins that climb to '6k, then a small valley and back up to almost 9k at it's highest. Freezing level was at 6K acording to forcast. We started flying through soupy snow. leveled off and asked for lower. We finally got out of it at about 3100'. And it was already melting off rather quickly. MVA where we were was 2800 I think. It was just enough to turn the leading edge of the tire milky. I had seen trace before, but not the same as this. All I had ever gotten prior was from clouds mostly. This was from precip. I would estimate no more that 1/8 to 1/4 of rime at the thickest point. Still just trace amounts. But it was enough quick enough to take notice. That airplane had issue's with carb ice that flight as well. Needless to say, it tought me a few lesson's.

#1: Forcast are not always accuracte, and terrian effect's temps more than I could have imagined.

#2: If it changes from wet to frozen, in any airplane if your not ready for it, it can come on quicker that you think. So when it does, DO SOMETHING. Not now, but right now. Take immiediate action. Don't wait and make sure your airplane can handle what you are going to do to it.

#3: See #1 again please. It still could be more than your airplane can handle. So you had better have an out planned before you even go.



I have never been in a situation where I had to worry about ice with an airplane certified for FIKI. So I have no real experince of flying real iceing. I hope when I do, I never have to test it to it's limits.
 
mshunter said:
+1, and I see your point I think. In an icing equiped airplane, I'd be conservative too. If it was a '500ft think layer to descend through on an approach, I see no problem. If I have to climb through it and it's 2000ft thick, maybe, lets see what others are reporting. If I have to do a cruise segment that's resonably long with few outs, I think I'll call my wife and tell her I'll be late for dinner, rather than not making it home at all.
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To be honest...I go in all of those situations, assuming a FIKI-equipped airplane and nothing more than moderate forecast or reported. Reading some of the responses in this thread, I'm beginning to think that I must be some kind of cowboy. :dunno:
 
500b said:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/danwold/4392439667/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/danwold/4392440727/

Had 3 inches on all unprotected surfaces a few weeks ago. Took a 10 knot hit on airspeed and just kept eating my Mike and Ike's. Couldn't pay me enough to fly the van in the Midwest..
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Man, I don't miss those nights.

Had my share of ice like that a couple of winters back going in and out of MKC. It was always amazing to get out of the Commander after looking at all the ice on the spinner and windshield and see that the TKS paneled areas were clear.
 
dasleben said:
To be honest...I go in all of those situations, assuming a FIKI-equipped airplane and nothing more than moderate forecast or reported. Reading some of the responses in this thread, I'm beginning to think that I must be some kind of cowboy. :dunno:
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I don't think its being a cowboy but more like getting the job done in the 135 world.
 
SpiraMirabilis said:
I don't want TKS on the caravan because I know who would be required to fill the stupid resevoir while freezing in the rain.
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:yeahthat: lol

I am just happy I got the winter out of the way. Well being up here, I hope I got it out of the way. Now onto storm season. I still want to see a tornado from the air. Haha. Maybe I will. From a safe distance of course. I have been in icing twice since the incident. It was light rime though so nothing like what I saw. Call me a cowboy all you want, but if you have ajob to do and you can do it safely then go. Mod ice was not predicted in my planning. In fact on my route there was none predicted nor any pilot reports of any kind.

Moogly. No harm done man. I would wonder as well. But what happened did happen. I was lucky to get over a airport and see. As for the metars. I listened to gag over and over because I wanted to get below. Come to find out the metar was indeed wrong. Computer error I suppose.
 
mogley68 said:
I don't think its being a cowboy but more like getting the job done in the 135 world.
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Agreed. I spent the morning blowing clear ice off the boots while trying to stay awake. Ice can kill ya, but so can dented cans of soup and solar radiation.
 
dasleben said:
To be honest...I go in all of those situations, assuming a FIKI-equipped airplane and nothing more than moderate forecast or reported. Reading some of the responses in this thread, I'm beginning to think that I must be some kind of cowboy. :dunno:
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Nah. I just think if you gonna do it, get as much knowledge about it as possible, and try and have some outs planned.
 
Nice job on surviving your continuing education!
The worst ice I ever had did not look so bad, but it went WAY past the boot on top of the wing, and the damn thing did not want to fly anymore. Full power down an ILS =more thrills than I care to participate in.
Ice = GTFO.
 
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