Severe clear ice. Thank you Kansas city

avi8tor1983 said:
Hey guys, just a quick reply.

Mogley- no exagggeration on the events that unfolded. I do have pics but I also went right back work. My route is a 15 hour duty day 5 days a week. I will post them when I get a chance. I thought I'd have time and then I did not. I will hopefully get them up today.

For all others I'll get your questions answered as soon as possible.
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Sorry for calling trying to call you out on this. I hear a lot of bs stories all of the time, but I really shouldn't have said anything because I really don't know you.

I've heard from a couple of your fellow pilots that the Guymon run is a real killer but at least it's a good run to get rid of the high mins in a hurry.
 
Finally! Pics as promised. The one of the radar and spinner are taken on the ground. Mind the fact that a lot ice fell off the aircraft after I landed and also I hit mixed on the way down. The other ones were taken in flight right after I broke off the first layer off.
 

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WOW...nice job on getting down on the ground. Hey I might have a crash pad for you OKC if you ever need a place to stay.
 
avi8tor1983 said:
Finally! Pics as promised. The one of the radar and spinner are taken on the ground. Mind the fact that a lot ice fell off the aircraft after I landed and also I hit mixed on the way down. The other ones were taken in flight right after I broke off the first layer off.
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As if your severe clear ice encounter wasn't enough, the weather decided to throw you some mixed ice just for fun as well? :eek:
 
avi8tor1983 said:
Finally! Pics as promised. The one of the radar and spinner are taken on the ground. Mind the fact that a lot ice fell off the aircraft after I landed and also I hit mixed on the way down. The other ones were taken in flight right after I broke off the first layer off.
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The inflight pictures don't look bad (yet), but the nose cone is pretty gnarly. Good pics, nice job!
 
dasleben said:
The inflight pictures don't look bad (yet), but the nose cone is pretty gnarly. Good pics, nice job!
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They honestly don't look too bad, I've had stuff that looked much worse. That said, what it looks like in a cell phone picture means nothing. What it did to the performance of the airplane means everything.

In ANY airplane, if you can't maintain your minimum airspeed in ice without sacrificing altitude it is an emergency. Which is exactly what happened here.
 
USMCmech said it all. In the pics you can see what the aftermath and the before was, during was a whole other story. I just did not think it wise to take out my phone and say hey, PICS!
 
Boots on the struts sucked huh...i've got about 250 van hours, but none in ice...

How do you feel about your response to the ice build up? Do you think you may have blew the boots too early/too late, or are you happy with your timing.
 
If I remember correctly you just started this job too. Good job taking care of it, chalk it up to experience.
 
The first time I think I blew the boots a little too early but after that I think I did it at the right times.

What I learned. When the windshield becomes covered in ice in a matter of seconds...just turn around. I learned a lot with the experience and I will chalk it up as that.

I did just start my job here. This happened on my first week solo! haha.
 
avi8tor1983 said:
The first time I think I blew the boots a little too early but after that I think I did it at the right times.

What I learned. When the windshield becomes covered in ice in a matter of seconds...just turn around. I learned a lot with the experience and I will chalk it up as that.

I did just start my job here. This happened on my first week solo! haha.
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I don't know... a lot of us here have flown entire nights with only the hot plate to look out of. Don't let your first icing lesson teach you to be overly conservative - let it teach you what accumulation rates of specific types of ice will do to your performance, the limitiations of your deicing equipment, and escape strategies to get out of bad icing situations.

Sounds like you had some bad clear ice, but I guarantee you land later in your career with pictures that appear much worse yet the aircraft still had plenty of performance left.
 
avi8tor1983 said:
The first time I think I blew the boots a little too early but after that I think I did it at the right times.

What I learned. When the windshield becomes covered in ice in a matter of seconds...just turn around. I learned a lot with the experience and I will chalk it up as that.

I did just start my job here. This happened on my first week solo! haha.
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Only thing that might have succeeded in doing was give the NTSB some evidence for their report. Glad you made it safe.
 
minitour said:
Respectfully, I don't think it's possible to be "overly conservative" with icing conditions.

-mini
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It's possible, but it's pretty hard. I'm not sure why we're discussing this in a thread about a guy encountering unforecast severe icing and doing everything right. Sure, every cargo op has the one person who won't launch if there's a cloud in the sky, but that's neither what happened here nor a useful opposite case. No one (with any sense) is suggesting that one ought to fly in severe icing and no one (with any sense) is suggesting that one ought to stay on the ground in a FIKI certified airplane if there might be ice up there somewhere. Freight dogs operate in the middle, which is where this guy found his unsustainable load of ice. He got a bad card dealt to him and lived to tell about it. Live and learn, and put down the banners.
 
Boris Badenov said:
It's possible, but it's pretty hard. I'm not sure why we're discussing this in a thread about a guy encountering unforecast severe icing and doing everything right. Sure, every cargo op has the one person who won't launch if there's a cloud in the sky, but that's neither what happened here nor a useful opposite case. No one (with any sense) is suggesting that one ought to fly in severe icing and no one (with any sense) is suggesting that one ought to stay on the ground in a FIKI certified airplane if there might be ice up there somewhere. Freight dogs operate in the middle, which is where this guy found his unsustainable load of ice. He got a bad card dealt to him and lived to tell about it. Live and learn, and put down the banners.
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Exactly.
 
minitour said:
Respectfully, I don't think it's possible to be "overly conservative" with icing conditions.

-mini
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I disagree, Our 135 operation once hired a new pilot with like 2000 hours in the traffic pattern who would not fly if there was an airmet for moderate icing even though he had a plane perfectly capable with boots, windshield etc. When I did a flight he canceled, I didnt pick up more then a trace. After a couple canceled flights from him because of icing airmets, he was let go.
 
Fly_Unity said:
I disagree, Our 135 operation once hired a new pilot with like 2000 hours in the traffic pattern who would not fly if there was an airmet for moderate icing even though he had a plane perfectly capable with boots, windshield etc.
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And?

[story]We were 2/3 of the way to fat, dumb and happy about 6 weeks ago on our way into an airport in Ohio. Well, some dingleberry reported the braking action as "nil", so...off to a different airport. We flew the ILS and landed without even having to turn on the windshield heat. Wings and engine heats and tail boot were all on.

As we cleared the hold short line, a lear 60 checked in crossing the marker. They came to the same hangar we did. When they shut down, they had what I would guess was over 2" of rime on unprotected surfaces. We didn't even have to deice. We had nothing on the plane! In just a few minutes, the same area went from zero icing to what I would consider moderate in our plane.[/story]

Ice is where you find it and it doesn't care if your plane is "perfectly capable" or not. You just can't be "too conservative" with ice. When you find it, get out and get out fast. Our wings get nice and hot, but that doesn't mean we tool along in ice for hours at a time. Yet how many of us (me included) have flown Barons or Navajos or twin cessnas with nothing but boots and a hot plate for 1.5 hours stuck in constant light icing conditions only to land with 4" horns on antennas?

-mini
 
minitour said:
And?

[story]We were 2/3 of the way to fat, dumb and happy about 6 weeks ago on our way into an airport in Ohio. Well, some dingleberry reported the braking action as "nil", so...off to a different airport. We flew the ILS and landed without even having to turn on the windshield heat. Wings and engine heats and tail boot were all on.

As we cleared the hold short line, a lear 60 checked in crossing the marker. They came to the same hangar we did. When they shut down, they had what I would guess was over 2" of rime on unprotected surfaces. We didn't even have to deice. We had nothing on the plane! In just a few minutes, the same area went from zero icing to what I would consider moderate in our plane.[/story]

Ice is where you find it and it doesn't care if your plane is "perfectly capable" or not. You just can't be "too conservative" with ice. When you find it, get out and get out fast. Our wings get nice and hot, but that doesn't mean we tool along in ice for hours at a time. Yet how many of us (me included) have flown Barons or Navajos or twin cessnas with nothing but boots and a hot plate for 1.5 hours stuck in constant light icing conditions only to land with 4" horns on antennas?

-mini
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Im just saying that if you plan to work for a 135 operation, you got to expect that you will get into some ice... IF you cancel EVERY flight that you expect you might get some ice, I would say your "too conservative" and maybe its not the job for you to be doing. Or maybe the experience level is just not up to PAR....

What would you do if you had a 250 hour co pilot come on with you, and refuse to shoot an approach with you because of "possible ice", even if you know the layer is only 500 foot thick? Would you call that "too conservative?" Or just lack of experience...
 
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