Setback today on the way to PPL

ozone

Well-Known Member
Well, I tried doing my checkride for my checkride today with 10-15kt winds 90degrees to every runway the check airman told me to go. First request was for a short field landing. So, after setting flaps etc., I realized i was too high and initiated a go-around. Next time, i was too high again and crabbed like crap. Touched down and bounced. If the check airman had not grabbed the wheel, it would have initiated a nasty porpoise. At that point my balloon of confidence deflated as if 3 RPG's had detonated around the proverbial balloon. Everything was crap after that point. Bouncing/porpoising my way on every f-ing landing. We did some air maneuvers which i did ok (except for diving a wee bit too much after a power-off stall). But, if this had been the real thing, i would have failed miserably. The really annoying thing is that I was totally gresing my landings on all my xc solos, my night flights and so on. I even managed to land OK when my instructor had me turn off the landing/taxi lights on our laast night landing (his rationale was that you landing lights always blow when it is most inconvenient)

Things learned:
1. I need to learn to slip much better, this whole crab until floating then kick the rudder over is NOT working for me
2. I need to tell the check airman when i am no longer comfortable (if i had my druthers, i would not have started the engine in the first place because the wind had already kicked up)
3. I need to cheer up (admittedly, the scotch i am drinking as i type is helping), and not give up on my goal of getting my PPL
4. I need to scan the instruments better on final to make sure airspeed etc is all in the right range....no diving for the runway.


Questions for the rabble:
1. Can you tell the check airman that today is not the day?
2. Advice on slipping?


Other than that, I am just venting at a very frustrating stage 3 check....I was SO CLOSE!
 
With 10 - 15 knot direct crosswinds on a PPL checkride, if you would have done the oral and then called off the flight, the DE may have given you points for being able to make a smart aeronautical decision.

The DE probably thought, "oh this is going to be fun."

You learned from the mistakes, now get back out there and take the checkride again. Dont give up now!
 
If you were on your check ride your are right to not start the engine, you know your limitations and this is somthing the DPE will be looking for.

As this was a stage check with an instructor, and you have taken away some areas you need to work on I would call the flight a success. Find another day with a cross with and spend time with your instructor, you will get there.

I find a good exercise for learning slips and control in cross winds is to fly along the runway, a section line, road, ect, with no intent to land. Practice putting in and taking out the slip while maintaing your ground track. I am sure your instructor will have some tricks of his / her own.
 
Stage checks are used to accomplish exactly what you did today. You learned, you gained experience and now you have a focal point to prep with your instructor for the real deal.

Are you flying at Centennial? I had one of my first post checkride flights to that airport and I didn't have hardly any experience at controlled airports. They handed my ass to me when I got lost (that's what I get for trying to playing smart). It was a terrible flight but I sure did learn a lot from it.

Keep working at it, you will be done in no time.
 
I agree, at any point during the checkride that you feel uncomfortable with a certain situation, it is within your capacity to discontinue the ride.

Keep at it on the x-wind landings though! It took me a long time to get used to kicking that rudder and putting that wing low, especially when it's coming from the other side. But once you get the hang of it, you'll love it and you'll be inviting those 15 kt crosswinds! It just takes time to open up your comfort level.

When it comes to slipping, it's not always your only option. If you're finding yourself high all the time when you're turning final, you can do s-turns, dump your flaps sooner, pull a little more power, etc. It's also very common for students to not descend enough until they're on final, make sure you descend enough while on downwind and base too.
 
As for the slipping advice, try transitioning from the crab to the slip earlier, maybe you aren't giving yourself enough time to adjust. You'll get better/faster at it the more hours you aquire.

15kts can be a lot of wind if you aren't used to it, especially if it's gusting.

Don't sweat it, we all have our days where we can't get anything right. Better you mess up now rather than on the actual ride.
 
Things learned:
1. I need to learn to slip much better, this whole crab until floating then kick the rudder over is NOT working for me

most students problem with this one is they way way overthink it.

if you are crabbed one way, the nose isnt pointing at the runway. step on the rudder to line up the nose with the runway. Now you are drifting away from the runway, turn the aileron the other way. now you are lined up and tracking centerline.

dont worry about "which way is the wind... hmm, ok which way do i need to put the rudder and aileron in that wind..". just look out the window and make the picture look right. after a while it'll become natural and you'll roll in the aileron and rudder in one smooth motion without thinking about it. it'll come.
 
Don't beat yourself up about it. I found that when I had an important checkride looming, at least one of the final prep flights was a bag of worms (even on nice days). Sounds like you had challenging conditions thrown into the mix as well. On the actual PPL checkride I am sure you will do just fine.

What kind of Scotch? I enjoy a 'wee dram' every now and again ;).
 
It is not a set back unless you allow it to be. Take it as a learning experience. Sure, your landings were a bit off, but show me a pilot who says they have never had a bad landing, and I will show you a liar.

You now know your personal minimums for a crosswind but you also know if you find yourself in that situation you have the ability to land safely. Bouncing, while not comfortable or pretty, is still a landing you can walk away from. You also showed sound decision making in choosing to go around.

You will have more situations similar to this, it is all part of learning and they do not stop once you get your PPL.

Good luck and enjoy the flying.
 
As for the comments on "doing it another day". One of our local DPEs here (he is MORE than fair) will find that if you "cancel" for crosswinds that are within the limits of the POH, you have a discontinuance and lose your money for the checkride. Sure, it's not a failure, but you should be prepared for a windy day...Murphy's Law and all. Crosswinds happen and you should seek out some nice stiff winds and get some prcatice. There was a real good article in AOPA last month (I'll try to find it for you) that really simplifies XW landings. Basically, when you turn final, put your rudder where it needs to be to keep centered on the runway and simply "point" the plane using the ailerons. So simple and so easy. It seemed to simple until I gave it a try...and it really works well.

Now, let's see if I can find the article...

OK, found it. It was actually in the AOPA Flight Training Feb 09 issue. I will PM the article to you.
 
Galaxy, someone needs to smack your DPE. I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir, but they are not the PIC on the ride.

If the students cancels because of personal limitations, but the DPE talks the candidate into the oral exam to get the money and then a discontinuance, that's wrong.

If the student's CFI doesn't stand up for their applicant, that is wrong too.
 
What kind of Scotch? I enjoy a 'wee dram' every now and again ;).

I tried a new blended scotch (i usually dont buy blendeds unless they are to be used for mixed drinks like scotch/gingerale and lime.....mmmmmmm). Anyway, This blended scotch was suprisingly really good and it's called "Jon Mark and Robbos" They make 3 blends (sweet, smokey and ...i forget the last one). Anyway, the smokey one is almost as good as laphroig and it's $30 in Colorado rather than the $60 laphroig charges.

Enough about booze: today I went up with my instructor and we foiund some cross winds and I utilized the advice y'all have given as well as advice from my instructor and things went much better. I even managed to do some short field landings in a cross wind without screwing it up too bad (a little hard, but one the mark). My last 2 landings back at KBJC went really well with about a 4kt 30 degree wind, so perhaps i will keep on trying to finish my pilot's license after all.

We also had some fun by going to 18V (platte Valley airpark)....a bumpy, asphalt 40 yard teenie-tiny airport buried under DIA's class B airspace. No VASI, no PAPI, no standard runway markings....just a very thin strip of asphalt surrounded by dryland farms. I thought i was going to do a soft field landing for real the first few times.
 
As a private pilot you should be able to land with x-winds 10-15. Not to be a downer, but you just found a weakness you need to address before your checkride. Consider it a blessing and get back on the horse.

One other note: "If the other guy didn't take the controls it would have initiated a porpose." YOU ARE FLYING THE AIRPLANE MAN! You correct your mistakes.

Galaxy - I don't blame the DE. I don't care what industry you're in. If I set aside my time and you cancel because you're not prepared, I still expect to be paid for that time.
 
As a private pilot you should be able to land with x-winds 10-15. Not to be a downer, but you just found a weakness you need to address before your checkride. Consider it a blessing and get back on the horse.

One other note: "If the other guy didn't take the controls it would have initiated a porpose." YOU ARE FLYING THE AIRPLANE MAN! You correct your mistakes.

Galaxy - I don't blame the DE. I don't care what industry you're in. If I set aside my time and you cancel because you're not prepared, I still expect to be paid for that time.

I agree. It's not a secret...he readily advertises that he will not cancel for weather that is legal for a particular checkride. As a matter of fact, I battled some of the worst crosswinds on my PPL check. Did I have a couple of go-arounds and some "considerations" to make? You bet, but all in all, it was great. Besides, if I was a DPE and I have a candidate that doesn't want to check because of a 15 knot crosswind, I wouldn't sign off on it...he ain't ready to exercise the privlidges of the certificate. Cut and dry IMHO. Personal minmums are something different that PTS...
 
Galaxy, someone needs to smack your DPE. I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir, but they are not the PIC on the ride.

If the students cancels because of personal limitations, but the DPE talks the candidate into the oral exam to get the money and then a discontinuance, that's wrong.

If the student's CFI doesn't stand up for their applicant, that is wrong too.

OK, that is a fair opinion. As a CFI, would you send an applicant to a checkride if they can't operate the airplane within the limits of the POH? A 15 knot crosswind is a very reasonable to expect around these parts and I suspect just about anywhere....and simply finding a runway that favors a headwind may not be available for many, many miles.
 
With respect to personal minimums vs. PTS, I have yet to read a requirement that states a pilot must be able to land at the limits of an aircraft, which are of an advisory nature only. All crosswind landing limitations under part 91 would necessarily be based on the pilots personal minimums. Exceeding your personal limits to impress someone, including a DPE, is a recipe for disaster. I wonder what culture of safety the DPE that advertises he will not cancel for weather within POH is creating?

To be honest you really should be better prepared for cross winds but it could have just been a bad day, we all have them.

Advice for slipping? Slip early and not late. Like you said about airspeed on final if you slip too late you will be landing way fast.
 
+1 for the idea of getting more proficient in crosswinds. It's no big deal, just go practice more. For all the people talking about personal minimums--what would you say if somebody set their personal minimums at 4 knots of wind? Would you say, "that's a safe pilot," or would you be like me and say, "come on, this guy needs to get more proficient and confident."?

Unless it's *really* gusty, I can't see any reason for a pilot to bounce a landing and need an instructor to intervene. By the time of the checkride, a person should have developed the instincts to prevent this from happening, one way or another. Hopefully that means better technique, or at the least, a go around.

But as I tell everybody prepping for a checkride, if you bust something during the check, be thankful you did. It's a lot better to find out about a problem from a check pilot now than when you're out on your own in the middle of nowhere on a.windy night and might get in to an accident later. You'll be a safer pilot in the long run because of this.
 
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