Senate Passes FAA Reauthorization Bill, 800 hr rule included

Re: Senate Passes FAA Reauthorization Bill, 800 hr rule incl

The point was there was a freezing level, therefore the possibility of icing, even in Florida.

It's gonna go like this...

Instructor: ...and in today's lesson we will climb to eleven thousand feet and get some real world icing in the freezing level.

student: cool

2 hours later at eleven thousand...

student: where's the ice?:)

instructor: hmmm...I don't know, we should be picking up some ice umm...we are in the freezing level.:confused:

student: maybe if we fly towards that black cloud with the strobe lights in it?:eek:

instructor: let's just head back and since we flew in the freezing level, you can log it as flight in icing conditions.:dunno:

Rim Shot
 
Re: Senate Passes FAA Reauthorization Bill, 800 hr rule incl

It's gonna go like this...

Instructor: ...and in today's lesson we will climb to eleven thousand feet and get some real world icing in the freezing level.

student: cool

2 hours later at eleven thousand...

student: where's the ice?:)

instructor: hmmm...I don't know, we should be picking up some ice umm...we are in the freezing level.:confused:

student: maybe if we fly towards that black cloud with the strobe lights in it?:eek:

instructor: let's just head back and since we flew in the freezing level, you can log it as flight in icing conditions.:dunno:

Rim Shot


Sounds good to me. Probably very accurate to. And what about the students who train in AZ in the summer, when the freezing level is in the high teens. Another knee jerk by the government? Enough already.
 
Re: Senate Passes FAA Reauthorization Bill, 800 hr rule incl

Sounds good to me. Probably very accurate to. And what about the students who train in AZ in the summer, when the freezing level is in the high teens. Another knee jerk by the government? Enough already.

Just go in the winter. Hard to believe, but you can pick up quite a bit of ice in good ole AZ...especially around FLG..
 
Re: Senate Passes FAA Reauthorization Bill, 800 hr rule incl

Just go in the winter. Hard to believe, but you can pick up quite a bit of ice in good ole AZ...especially around FLG..


You know it!

The WORST ice I have ever seen was on a flight from Las Vegas to the Grand Canyon Airport in a Twin Otter. Nearly three inches on the unprotected struts.

I had to go to row 5 to check the tail every ten minutes!

Good thing I had 2000 TT back then. :D
 
Re: Senate Passes FAA Reauthorization Bill, 800 hr rule incl

It's gonna go like this...

Instructor: ...and in today's lesson we will climb to eleven thousand feet and get some real world icing in the freezing level.

student: cool

2 hours later at eleven thousand...

student: where's the ice?:)

instructor: hmmm...I don't know, we should be picking up some ice umm...we are in the freezing level.:confused:

student: maybe if we fly towards that black cloud with the strobe lights in it?:eek:

instructor: let's just head back and since we flew in the freezing level, you can log it as flight in icing conditions.:dunno:

Rim Shot

It doesn't have to be CB's to pick up ice in FL. I was in the ice from about 10,000 to 8,000 going from MIA-JAX the other day.
 
Re: Senate Passes FAA Reauthorization Bill, 800 hr rule incl

They could replace it with one that operates on a 135 certificate, you can operate a Beech 1900 with passengers on one.

To clear that up, the 1900 is still flown part 121, with an exemtion to use some of the 135 rules, which allow service to airports that 121 rules would prohibit. Gulfstream would prob. Have a rough time convincing the FAA that it was a scheduled 135 charter operator.
 
Re: Senate Passes FAA Reauthorization Bill, 800 hr rule incl

Depends on the school. I instructed at a school that was both 141 and 61. Only difference was I had to follow a specific syllabus for 141 vs my own lesson plans, and I had to take a couple of extra checkrides with the CP to qualify as a 141 instructor.

Exactly.
There seems to be a lot of grand statements about 141, when really all people are talking about is there own local experience.

If you chose to go to an expensive, micromanaging 141 school, or if you chose to go to an expensive 61 school, that is your bad.

141/61/accelerated/college/FBO/academy, it makes no difference.
The Applicant, the CFI and management makes the difference.

Somebody in this thread even said they would be a better pilot if they were 61 instead of 141...that is ridiculous.

I'm biased, I work for a 141/61 school that trains college students and professionals.
I have been to the mountain top...and it is good.
 
Re: Senate Passes FAA Reauthorization Bill, 800 hr rule incl

No, it does not have a grandfather clause.

Don't know if this has been said, but here goes.

There is no need for a grandfather clause. Those hired prior to this legislation are already on a senority list, hired in accordance with legislation at the date of hire. They're employed and it doesn't matter.

Going forward, from the date of signing or implemtation is the time period in question.

Can't hold someone liable for an issue if they were lawfully hired under legal circumstances that pre-date the new legislation.
 
Re: Senate Passes FAA Reauthorization Bill, 800 hr rule incl

Hi!

What are the Flight/Duty/Rest rules in this version of the bill?

Deregulation: The airlines, now are NOT deregulated, and then never have been. I wish they were...we would be avoiding a lot of the problems that we have now, because we are STILL suffering the painful affects of going through the process of deregulation.

cliff
NBO
 
Re: Senate Passes FAA Reauthorization Bill, 800 hr rule incl

Hi!

JAA:
Have to understand Polar Sterographic Charts, and all the various types of charts: If you are 40 miles from a line of latitude, and fly north to 35 degrees N, how far are you from that same line of latitude?
If you are parachuting near the ocean, how near do you have to be to require the parachuters to wear a life vest? What is the minimum opening altitude for parachuting? Questions about balloon flying.
TONS of questions on NDBs, and stuff like if you are on a certain VOR radial, and fly X minutes in a certain direction to another radial, how far from the VOR are you now?
In Africa, at such and such a date, how will the winds change when a certain type of front blows through? What is the European/US/Asian name of certain types of wind flow.
Point of No Return, 1/2 point, time/mileage-wise, of a certain flight.
THOUSANDS of other pointless and stupid questions. Welcome to JAA testing!!!

Don't want an "arbitrary" number picked out to qualify for -121, like "800 hours"?
Solution: Minimums for an ATP are a range between 0-10,000 hours. No "arbitrary" number of hours required for an ATP. Anywhere in that range and you can take your ATP written and practical test. Be an Airline Captain with 50 hours of flight time. Possible with a lot of practice with MS Flight Sim.

cliff
NBO
 
Re: Senate Passes FAA Reauthorization Bill, 800 hr rule incl

Don't want an "arbitrary" number picked out to qualify for -121, like "800 hours"?
Solution: Minimums for an ATP are a range between 0-10,000 hours. No "arbitrary" number of hours required for an ATP. Anywhere in that range and you can take your ATP written and practical test. Be an Airline Captain with 50 hours of flight time. Possible with a lot of practice with MS Flight Sim.

cliff
NBO


The number wasn't arbitrary. The number suggested was 1500 hours. The 'arbitrary 800' was a political compromise reached between politicians and lobbyists- many of whom are not closely acquainted with aviation.

The highlighted portion of your post just made me laugh. YHGTBSM.

If flight simulator time could really make the difference for a real Captain, I'd be a Colonel in the damned Air Force.
 
Re: Senate Passes FAA Reauthorization Bill, 800 hr rule incl

Hi Guys,

FWIW, the House kicked this bill back to the Senate with the requirement for not only the 1,500 hours, but with ENHANCED requirements for the ATP.

H.R. 1586 Oberstar Amendment Summary
Pilot Qualifications: Requires airline pilots to hold an Airline Transport Pilot (ATP) certificate (1,500 minimum flight hours required). Requires the FAA to raise the minimum requirements for the ATP certificate. Requires pilot training for effective performance in: an air carrier operational environment; adverse weather conditions, including icing; high-altitude operations; and a multi-pilot crew. Enables the FAA to consider allowing certain academic training hours that may increase the level of safety above the minimum requirements to be counted towards the 1,500-hour ATP certificate requirement.
House Joins, Re-Passes FAA, Safety Bills

Press Release
House Joins, Re-Passes FAA, Safety Bills
Merged authorization bill sent back to Senate

March 25, 2010


By Jim Berard 202-226-5064

In an unusual amending process, the House today combined and reaffirmed support for two important aviation bills and returned the blended bill to the Senate, setting up the possibility of a conference committee to reconcile the Chambers’ differing versions of the legislation.

By a vote of 276-145, the House amended H.R. 1586, the Federal Aviation Administration Air Transportation Modernization and Safety Improvement Act of 2010 and ordered the bill returned to the Senate. In the process, the House replaced the Senate’s aviation language with the text of H.R. 915, the Federal Aviation Authorization Act of 2009, and H.R. 3371, the “Airline Safety and Pilot Training Improvement Act of 2009”, both of which passed the House last year.

The action sets up the possibility that the Senate and House versions of the bill can be reconciled in a conference committee or by other means.

The current FAA authorization was due to expire in 2007, but has been kept in force through a succession of extension bills. The current extension expires March 31, but a bill to extend the authorization through July 3, 2010 passed the House earlier this week and is now pending in the Senate.

Following are the prepared remarks by Rep. James L. Oberstar (Minn.), Chairman of the Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure, and Rep. Jerry F. Costello (Ill.), Chairman of the Subcommittee on Aviation.

FLOOR STATEMENT OF THE HONORABLE JAMES L. OBERSTAR
MARCH 25, 2010
...
Modernizing the air traffic control system, increasing capacity, and ensuring small communities maintain access to service are all important issues, but none of these issues could exist without a safe system. To this end, this amendment includes the provisions of H.R. 3371, the “Airline Safety and Pilot Training Improvement Act of 2009”, which improves aviation safety by increasing pilot training requirements, addressing pilot fatigue, making pilot records easier to obtain, and strengthening FAA’s safety programs. This legislation was developed as a result of the crash of Colgan Air Flight 3407, where 50 people tragically perished outside of Buffalo, New York, on February 12, 2009. In October 2009, H.R. 3371 passed the House by vote of 409 to 11.

...

Importantly, this bill also amends the Railway Labor Act (RLA) to clarify that employees of an “express carrier” shall be covered by the RLA only if they are employed in a position that is eligible for certification under FAA’s rules, such as mechanics or pilots, and they are actually performing that type of work for the express carrier. All other express carrier employees, such as truck drivers and baggage handlers, would be governed by the National Labor Relations Act (NLRA). This change would remove the disparity in current law that Federal Express drivers are governed under the RLA, which requires organization for collective bargaining on a nationwide basis, while drivers for the United Parcel Service (UPS) and other express carriers are governed by the NLRA, which permits organization on a local basis. This provision was debated in the Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure and agreed to by a recorded vote of 51 to 18.
FLOOR STATEMENT OF THE HONORABLE JERRY F. COSTELLO
THE HOUSE AMENDMENT TO H.R. 1586,
THE “AVIATION SAFETY AND INVESTMENT ACT OF 2010”
MARCH 25, 2010

...

Second, H.R. 1586 as amended, provides consistency in collective bargaining rights throughout the express carrier industry by allowing employees working on the ground and driving trucks to organize under the National Labor Relations Act, which enables employees to organize at the local level as opposed to at the national level. Workers who are directly involved with the aircraft operation portion of those companies, like pilots and mechanics, would continue to be under the jurisdiction of the Railway Labor Act.

In addition, this legislation also includes one of the strongest aviation safety bills in decades, H.R. 3371, the “Airline Safety and Pilot Training Act of 2009”. This bipartisan legislation was written and introduced by Chairman Oberstar, Ranking Members Mica and Petri and me last year. The legislation was introduced after hearings and roundtable discussions and with the input from the families of those who perished in the Colgan accident in Buffalo, the pilot groups, airlines, the National Safety Transportation Board (NTSB), the DOT Inspector General, and Members of Congress.

Throughout 2009, the Aviation Subcommittee held hearings and roundtables on safety issues related to the Colgan accident, culminating in the introduction of H.R. 3371.

Regional airlines have been involved in the last seven fatal U.S. airline accidents, and pilot performance has been implicated in four of these accidents. Our bill took action to strengthen pilot training requirements and qualifications.

There are five important provisions I want to highlight that were originally included in H.R. 3371 and in the bill before us. First, to address pilot qualifications, the bill increases the minimum number of flight hours required to be hired as an airline pilot. Currently, a first officer only needs a Commercial Pilot’s License to be a pilot, which requires a minimum of 250 flight hours. There is a consensus that 250 hours is simply not enough experience to be an airline pilot and that safety would be improved by raising the standard.

Under our legislation, all airline pilots must obtain an Airline Transport Pilot (ATP) license, which is currently only mandatory for an airline captain. The ATP requires a minimum of 1,500 flight hours and additional aeronautical knowledge, crew resource management training, and greater flight proficiency testing.

The legislation also strengthens ATP qualitative minimum requirements such as demonstrating the ability to function effectively in a multi-pilot environment and training to fly in adverse weather conditions, including icing.

Second, we mandate several outstanding NTSB recommendations related to pilot training that were discussed at our hearings, such as those on stall and upset recovery and remedial training.

Third, to ensure that airlines can make informed hiring decisions, the bill requires the FAA to create and maintain an electronic Pilot Records Database. The database will allow an airline to quickly access a pilot applicant’s comprehensive record for hiring purposes only.

Fourth, fatigue has been on the NTSB’s Most Wanted List since 1990. The bill directs the FAA to implement a new pilot flight and duty time rule, taking into account the operating environment of today’s pilots and scientific research on fatigue. As part of the rulemaking, the National Academy of Sciences is tasked with studying the effect of commuting on pilot fatigue. In addition, the bill requires air carriers to create fatigue risk management systems to proactively mitigate fatigue.

Finally, the bill requires all Internet Web sites that sell airline tickets to show, on the first web page display, the name of the air carrier operating each flight segments of a proposed itinerary
 
Re: Senate Passes FAA Reauthorization Bill, 800 hr rule incl

Maybe I am out of the loop here, but isn't this just a BS knee-jerk reaction bill from what happened in Buffalo last year?

I wish every time a car crashed we got a new set of driving rules.
 
Re: Senate Passes FAA Reauthorization Bill, 800 hr rule incl

Maybe I am out of the loop here, but isn't this just a BS knee-jerk reaction bill from what happened in Buffalo last year?

I wish every time a car crashed we got a new set of driving rules.


Not a knee-jerk at all. In fact, a carefully crafted response designed to improve the industry for airline pilots everywhere.

But hey, what do I know? :rolleyes:
 
Re: Senate Passes FAA Reauthorization Bill, 800 hr rule incl

Is there any real changes laid out in the bill as far as duty/rest times or is it a "we'll look at that later" deals.
 
Re: Senate Passes FAA Reauthorization Bill, 800 hr rule incl

Maybe I am out of the loop here, but isn't this just a BS knee-jerk reaction bill from what happened in Buffalo last year?

I wish every time a car crashed we got a new set of driving rules.

We're trying to prevent pilot mills like Riddle from promising the moon to college hopefuls and graduates.

Whether or not I support the arbitrary time, I do not support ERAU getting any more of my money (heck I was never going to give as an alum anyways but this makes it way easier) so that they can lobby and try to put in an exception of classroom hours reducing total time...
 
Re: Senate Passes FAA Reauthorization Bill, 800 hr rule incl

Adding "crew qualifications" to the ATP --- what if you fly single pilot freight in an aircraft that needs an ATP, ie 1900/metro/etc?
 
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