Seggy on Emirates!

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Once again @A Life Aloft, I would LOVE to see you go into your former crew room and try to explain how Chapter 11 is a government subsidy to your former coworkers. It is more of a potential reset based on past business practices. Nothing in Chapter 11 is guaranteed to go one way or another. It could easily lead to liquidation or a takeover like AA/USAirways.


Also, just as a general FYI, outside of this thread by a few individuals, the other airline pilots who have commented to me through other channels have said the article was 'spot on'.
 
Seggy said:
So the US Energy Information Administration is wrong?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_reserves_in_the_United_Arab_Emirates



From my understanding the finance and tourism was put in place for the government to have a future, once the oil ran out. Hence why they are taking their state subsidized airlines to the level they are at.




They use the fuel advantage the same way Delta is hoping to use their refinery they bought.



I am sure they have pipelines that cover the area well.



Easy to do when you don't have the same labor laws other airlines have to deal with, have the government subsidize your growth, etc.



The reason why EK is doing so well is because they gain an advantage from the laws they don't have to deal with, their ruthlessness in their growth/business practices, and an unfair advantage.
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Last figure I saw for Dubai was around 200,000 barrels a day. Compared to Abu Dhabi's over 2 million it's pretty low. The USA is somewhere around 10 million right now by comparison.

Jet fuel is refined in Singapore and then shipped back to the UAE. There is a pipeline for oil going from Abu Dhabi to Fujairah port. So that they can bypass shipping it through the Straits of Hormuz. Kind of an insurance policy against an irritating Iran. There is no pipeline from Singapore to Dubai airport however.

Again, you say "State subsidized airline". I'm guessing you are talking about Etihad or Qatar when you make those kind of comments. Either that or your judgment is clouded because you don't seem to understand that Emirates is not "subsidized" by the government of Dubai. They pay a dividend to the government from their profits every year. So it is actually the other way around. The government of Dubai is partially subsidized by the profits of a well run airline.


TP
 
typhoonpilot said:
Again, you say "State subsidized airline". I'm guessing you are talking about Etihad or Qatar when you make those kind of comments. Either that or your judgment is clouded because you don't seem to understand that Emirates is not "subsidized" by the government of Dubai. They pay a dividend to the government from their profits every year. So it is actually the other way around. The government of Dubai is partially subsidized by the profits of a well run airline.

TP
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Bullcrap.

The government of Dubai and Emirates is one.

Once again, look what happened to Canada when they fought Emirates trying to flood the market with seats. Canada citizens had to pay $1000.00 Visas and the Canadian Military was kicked out of a strategic military base. You don't have that happen unless the relationship goes beyond paying profits to the government.
 
People see Emirates A380 super luxury service and are under the impression they'll have that on Fresno to Albuquerque if we relax those evil laws.

But if Americans are idiotic enough to give foreign carriers free access to our skies, well, we deserve exactly what we get.

There's no way to compete. Why pilots would even think it's a good deal for our economy completely befuddles me.
 
I don't think that's what anyone who has a counter post has been stating on here and I don't see Emirates having any interest in flying from FAT to ABQ. Perhaps I missed something.

Here is a good interview with Tim Clark. First 20 minutes are what is pertinent and explains what their plans have been, are, will be and why.

http://www.routesonline.com/news/29...ith-sir-tim-clark-president-emirates-airline/

A better question might be asking why US carriers have dropped the ball over time, so to speak and not been as forward thinking as perhaps they should have.
 
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Seggy said:
Bullcrap.

The government of Dubai and Emirates is one.

Once again, look what happened to Canada when they fought Emirates trying to flood the market with seats. Canada citizens had to pay $1000.00 Visas and the Canadian Military was kicked out of a strategic military base. You don't have that happen unless the relationship goes beyond paying profits to the government.
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Your hysterical distortions and exaggerations are only going to help you lose the debate. You say Emirates wanted to "flood the market with seats". What they wanted was simply to have daily service. You see Emirates is in the business of making a profit ( so they can pay a dividend to the government :) ). They believe that daily service is a better product than 3 times weekly. They believe that daily service makes the route more efficient.

You say the Canadian military was "kicked out of a strategic military base". The agreement expired, at which time it was extended for 3 months, then not renewed. Kind of different than "kicked out" wouldn't you say?

It was the UAE federal government that changed the Visa policy not the government of Dubai. Need we continue the geopolitical lesson to give you a greater understanding of the government structure of the UAE?

The United Arab Emirates is made up of 7 Emirates. They are Abu Dhabi, Dubai, Sharjah, Fujairah, Umm Al Quwain, Ajman, and Ras al Khaimah. Each one of the rulers of those Emirates sits on the Federal Supreme Council. The ruler of Abu Dhabi is always the President and the ruler of Dubai is the Prime Minister and Vice President. Foreign policy is not controlled by Dubai. So a decision to change Visas fees or extend a lease on a military base would be a joint decision of the 7 emirs.


Typhoonpilot
 
typhoonpilot said:
Your hysterical distortions and exaggerations are only going to help you lose the debate. You say Emirates wanted to "flood the market with seats". What they wanted was simply to have daily service. You see Emirates is in the business of making a profit ( so they can pay a dividend to the government :) ). They believe that daily service is a better product than 3 times weekly. They believe that daily service makes the route more efficient.

You say the Canadian military was "kicked out of a strategic military base". The agreement expired, at which time it was extended for 3 months, then not renewed. Kind of different than "kicked out" wouldn't you say?

It was the UAE federal government that changed the Visa policy not the government of Dubai. Need we continue the geopolitical lesson to give you a greater understanding of the government structure of the UAE?

The United Arab Emirates is made up of 7 Emirates. They are Abu Dhabi, Dubai, Sharjah, Fujairah, Umm Al Quwain, Ajman, and Ras al Khaimah. Each one of the rulers of those Emirates sits on the Federal Supreme Council. The ruler of Abu Dhabi is always the President and the ruler of Dubai is the Prime Minister and Vice President. Foreign policy is not controlled by Dubai. So a decision to change Visas fees or extend a lease on a military base would be a joint decision of the 7 emirs.


Typhoonpilot
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Why don't you look at this article...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/emirates-pushing-canada-on-air-travel-1.925223

Then this one...

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ert-military-base-camp-mirage/article4328727/

The sources in these articles (there are more out there) agree with my view point of what happened.

Concerning, the flooding of the market. Doesn't Emirates have more seats in their fleet (or will once all the orders are delivered) than actual citizens of Dubai? They want to control the TransAtlantic and TransPacific Market. Airlines are protecting their turf, Emirates is reacting using their government assets.

Canada also did market studies and having daily service (even with the connecting traffic) would offer more seats in the market than it needed.
 
Well since you posted it:

Protect consumers, CAC head says
"We've got a situation where somehow diplomatic matters for Canada are being linked to the interest of Canada's major airline," said association president Bruce Cran.

"It doesn't make sense at all. We're wondering when someone will step in and protect consumers' rights here."

Cran said the argument that Air Canada would lose a significant number of passengers if the two U.A.E. airlines were allowed into the country more frequently is moot.

"We're talking about a destination to which Air Canada does not even fly (directly)," said Cran, adding that there was no reason for Canadian consumers to be forced to give preference to Air Canada's Star Alliance carriers, which operate competing routes through Europe.

"Consumers are getting the raw end of the stick all the way along here," he said.
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typhoonpilot said:
Well since you posted it:
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I also found it was interesting what UK based aviation industry analyst John Strickland has been saying this Summer from an article that I had saved:

"Strickland says European carriers have become more attuned to “whinging” about the Gulf carrier rather than focusing on their own business models. “These airlines need to realise they can’t just dispose of competition that doesn’t suit them,” he says. “They can’t go on about unfairness. They need to see what’s driving these competitors and perhaps take a page out of their books.”

Strickland cites the experience of UK flag carrier British Airways (BA) as an example. Since the 1980s, BA has endured fierce competition from Emirates and other Gulf carriers at its two main London hubs, Heathrow Airport and Gatwick Airport. He says BA’s ability to thrive despite this competition by focusing on improving its own service levels is an approach other legacy carriers should follow. BA is “looking to do and try new things, without whining about what Emirates is doing”, he says.

Arguably, the most notable example of a legacy carrier transforming its business model in the face of intense competition from Gulf carriers is Australian airline Qantas, which signed a landmark deal with Emirates last year. Under the agreement, Qantas relocated its hub for European flights from Singapore to Dubai. It also agreed to coordinate with Emirates on pricing, frequent flyer programmes and other initiatives.

In an interview with Bloomberg Businessweek Middle East last year, Qantas CEO Alan Joyce said the airline’s partnership with Emirates primarily offered “access to a new hub and new destinations in Europe, the Middle East and North Africa”."

It's a good read: http://businessweekme.com/Bloomberg/newsmid/190/newsid/64#cnttop
 
A Life Aloft said:
I also found it was interesting what UK based aviation industry analyst John Strickland has been saying this Summer from an article that I had saved:

"Strickland says European carriers have become more attuned to “whinging” about the Gulf carrier rather than focusing on their own business models. “These airlines need to realise they can’t just dispose of competition that doesn’t suit them,” he says. “They can’t go on about unfairness. They need to see what’s driving these competitors and perhaps take a page out of their books.”
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Good find.

The bold part is the key and is one of the main points I have been trying to get across to the protectionist crowd.

There is demand for efficient travel to the Middle East and beyond that neither U.S. carriers, nor U.S. carriers in conjunction with their European alliance partners, are meeting. If they hope to compete they must improve their flight schedules or add new routes to meet the demand.


TP
 
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Seggy said:
The reason why EK is doing so well is because they gain an advantage from the laws they don't have to deal with, their ruthlessness in their growth/business practices, and an unfair advantage.
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You do realize the amount of money Emirates spends on their employees craps on any legacy carrier? The amount of money spent on very good pay packages? Drivers for every pilot, free health care, free schooling for their kids, free housing.....it gets quite expensive for them to do that when you get to their size. I got my type rating on the 737 in United's Denver training center. I've also been to Emirates training center. Theres no comparison.

Emirates pays the SAME landing fees in DXB as all the other carriers. Emirates pays DNATA the same price to service their aircraft as all the other carriers in DXB. Emirates cost to train their employees is just as much, and I would argue more than legacies.

Emirates onboard food and spirits doesn't compare to the Legacies. Here's a list of whats on Emirates DXB-LHR route today:


Dom Pérignon has built its reputation on quality and the name today is synonymous with luxury. The 2004 has intensity and elegance. The aromas of almond and powdered cocoa develop gradually into white fruit with hints of dried flowers. Classic toasted notes give a rounded finish and denote a fully realized maturity. On the palate, the wine instantly traces an astoundingly fine line between density and weightlessness. The full taste lingers with the utmost elegance. This is a Dom Pérignon that will be long lived and remembered for even longer. One of the finest aperitifs known to man, also excellent with seafood and poultry dishes.

Region
France

Wine type
Champagne


Rheingau is undoubtedly home to some of the world’s best Riesling and produces a style of wine that would engage and probably convert almost any Riesling xenophobe. August Kesseler, exponent of some of the finest vineyards in the region, brings this one step closer. The nose of the Lorchhauser Seligmacher explodes with intense florality and an undercurrent of citrus and stone fruits. The palate over-delivers with a gripping and fresh acidity and beguiling texture. The finish lingers with great persistence. An aperitif wine, something for shellfish and for grilled fish with enough weight to carry a rich sauce. Enjoy!

Region
Germany

Wine type
White


Just south of San Francisco and at around 650 metres above sea level is where Mount Eden cultivates its sensational Chardonnay fruit. The cooler air at this altitude gives a more vivid freshness than usually associated with Californian white wines. The 2010 is concentrated and rich yet brilliantly focused and taught. Poached pear, peach and citrus layered over a creamy palate with notes of minerality and crushed rocks. Great with shellfish and grilled fish.

Region
United States

Wine type
White


The Côte Rôtie vineyards are some of the toughest to cultivate in the wine world.‎ Pierre Gaillard has spent his career in this harsh environment, perfecting his craft to produce some of the finest wines of the region. The Côte Rôtie Rose Pourpre 2011 is a superbly crafted wine with exquisite balance. A vibrant nose of fresh violets and blueberries leads to a palate with bountiful fruit and freshness. Excellent with grilled and roasted meats and a good match for spicy meat dishes also.

Region
France

Wine type
Red


Léoville-las-Cases forms part of the elite known as the super-second growths of Bordeaux, so termed as they have the ability to rival the first growths. No surprise in the case of Léoville-Las-Cases since its vineyards border those of Château Latour. The 2004 is à point now. The layers of concentration reveal a beautiful bouquet of ripe blackcurrant and sweet cherry and toasty vanilla. The texture is dense but supple. A treat for any occasion, superb with red meat dishes and drinks very well on its own.

Region
France

Wine type
Red


The intriguing Pharaoh Moans label is a replica of the Rosetta Stone, which in 1822 finally decoded the hieroglyphic script. Predominantly Syrah with a touch of Grenache the 2011 Pharaoh Moans has a huge nose of black berry, chocolate and Asian spice. Full bodied and velvety, the 2011 is both balanced and generous with cherry, raspberry coulee and melted chocolate on the palate. Excellent with an array of foods including grilled meats and spicy dishes.

Region
United States

Wine type
Red


Château Guiraud is one of the Premier Grand Cru Classé châteaux of Sauternes, capable of producing some of the best sweet wines in the world. The 2002 Guiraud is an absolute classic, boasting plenty of botrytis notes. Almond, white flower, orange, pear and citrus zest on the nose, beautiful balance on the palate with green tea and pepper notes. Great length and purity on the finish. The wine was repackaged into the Wine In Tube packaging recently and this marks the first time Emirates serves a wine in this format.

Region
France

Wine type
Dessert


This incredible port is a blend of different tawny ports with a minimum age of 40 years. Freshly bottled from the barrel the Sandeman 40 displays beguiling aromas of dried apricot, vanilla and honey. The palate is rich and reminiscent of Christmas with dark raisins, honey and nuts. Delicious with blue cheese and chocolate desserts.

Region
Portugal

Wine type
Port


Clicquot’s signature non-vintage Brut is loved all over the world for its crisp, full flavours, consistent quality and celebratory yellow label. Often referred to as ‘The Widow’ (after the matriarch, Madam Clicquot Ponsardin, who was widowed at the tender age of 27), this classical dry Champagne is a blend of two-thirds black grapes (Pinot Noir and Pinot Meunier) for body, balanced with one-third Chardonnay for elegance. It has a fine persistent sparkle and golden Champagne colour. It remains one of the benchmark non vintage Champagnes of the world.

Region
France

Wine type
Champagne


Château Guiraud is a premier Grand Cru Classé château of Sauternes. The ‘G’ is a dry white Bordeaux made from the same estate blending 70% Sauvignon Blanc and 30% Semillon. A very unique wine with a nose of lime blossom, green grass and a faint saltiness. The palate screams white Bordeaux showing the hallmark richness, a squeeze of grapefruit and lemon and a wrap of oak. A very moreish wine that would pair well with light seafood starters if you can make it last that long.

Region
France

Wine type
White


The Larry Cherubino Pedestal 2013 is a classic example of Margaret River Chardonnay expressing a nose of fresh nectarines, mango and grapefruit. The palate is well balanced with citrusy acidity, flavours of nectarines, peach melba and hints of toasted almonds. The finish is creamy and leisurely oaky with a soft and seductive texture. Enjoy with fish, chicken and pasta dishes.

Region
Australia

Wine type
White


Du Tertre 2005 is one of those wines that just hits the sweet spot. Still youthful after 9 years yet showing already some intriguing aromatics – truffles, cassis, black berries with light, toasty oak. The palate is layered and textured with rich fruitcake flavours and hints of chocolate. The sweet tannins and overall opulence provide a finish that you just don’t want to end. Excellent with red meat dishes, not so good with spicy food.

Region
France

Wine type
Red


A beautiful estate just outside of Florence, Collazzi is the hobby winery for Lamberto Frescobaldi, better known for being President of the eponymous Tuscan house. The estate was replanted not so long ago with Bordeaux varieties and the resultant wine now sits in the Super Tuscan category as opposed to being a Chianti. The best way to describe Collazzi is seamless. Bold aromas of currants and blueberries lead to a silky and generous palate with firm yet fine tannins. Pure joy best appreciated with red meat dishes.

Region
Italy

Wine type
Red


Quinta do Portal is a small single estate producer, somewhat of a rarity in the region. Tawny is an overlooked style of port, very different to the better known vintage style. Colheita refers to a vintage tawny port. Aged in port pipes for nearly all its life the wines take on a colour as suggested in the name and the fruit flavours change from the more common damsons and berries to dried white fruit, café au lait and caramel. The palate offers nutty flavours and Christmas spice. Excellent with chocolate as well as salty cheese.


Emirates can't go to these vendors and ask for below cost prices. Legacies don't carry these brands. More cost to Emirates. If you guys look up the price of 1 bottle of DOM 2004, it's $200. They don't stock just one bottle per aircraft. The amount of money Emirates spends on their product is far greater than say United or American.

So, thus far:

1. Landing fees
2. Labor costs
3. Inflight catering
4. Ground Services
5. Maintenance

are just a few of the items that Emirates doesn't have an advantage on. Let's talk about some of the costs Emirates has that Legacies don't come close to. Marketing and Branding.

United might spend some money on The United Center in ORD where the Bulls play, but thats just one arena. Emirates?

1. Asian Football Confederation
2. Arsenal FC Emirates Stadium
3. AC Milan
4. Paris Saint Germain
5. Hamburger SV
6. Real Madrid
7. The Emirates Cup

Thats just soccer

They sponsor Rugby, Tennis, Motorsports, Horse Racing, Golf, Cricket.....it ain't cheap. It's $$$$$$$. Waaaaaaaay more than Legacies spend.



What about MX? Once again, with the worlds largest fleet of B777s and A380s, they probably get a good price on parts through economies of scale, but thats their advantage of doing business. They're still paying lots of money for it.


Legacy's are having their asses handed to them by a better run, better managed, better everything airline. The only US carrier that has their stuff together is Delta.
 
The general public is lazy and don't do the research. And I don't blame them. Who the heck wants to look up airline cost structure on their day off other than nerdy airline pilots.
 
Derg said:
I've been hella busy. When I'm working, I'm working, when I'm not working, I'm still working and I still have to get work done before, well, heading back to work.

Totally serious.
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We all know you're sitting back in the left seat stroking that mustache doing with a whip on the left pedestal ready to strike at a moments notice.
 
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