Save the contract towers

Autothrust Blue said:
That is not actuallythe sole reason why this country is messed up (if indeed it is as messed up as folks would say it is—the problem is long-term, not short-term, but all the butthurt and focus is short-term), and in The Wookie's defense, despite being completely off base when it comes to user fees, he is barking up the correct Constitutional and political trees. The President is failing to lead, while I would say that the House GOP is being their normal, deplorably intransigent selves.
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Autothrust Blue said:
That is not actually the sole reason why this country is messed up (if indeed it is as messed up as folks would say it is—the problem is long-term, not short-term, but all the butthurt and focus is short-term), and in The Wookie's defense, despite being completely off base when it comes to user fees, he is barking up the correct Constitutional and political trees. The President is failing to lead, while I would say that the House GOP is being their normal, deplorably intransigent selves.
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Maybe then you should read all of what I posted in this thread, quoting Waco(and how he feels about Obama, because I feel pretty close to the same), and what I say about the rest of them. They are all of the same filth, red and blue. None of them do what's right for the country. Rather they all do what's going to get them re-elected. And playing the blame game ("no, it's the Rebuplicans who messed it up") is what isn't fixing the problem. Our government, and how the two party system is slowly destroying the country was made abundantly clear in Seggy's approach. The whole system has become a bit of a joke. To sit back and take no blame for the problem(our politicians, and which party you side with), is not only childish and foolish, but you might as well burry your head in the sand and let it all come crashing down aroound you.

I don't have a solution. I'm not a politician. That's what our elected officials are supposed to do. But damnit, quit voting in people because you want something for yourself and your party! Vote for what is going to fix the problem.

Basically, I'm sick of hearing the "It's your fault!" "NO, It's your fault!" B.S. It's both of their faults!
 
Seggy said:
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< re-redacted > :)


Seggy said:
And whose fault is that? So much good the AOPA has done over the years to help the small guys out. They are useless.
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The same can be said for every other special interest group when things don't go the way you want them to go. Flying airplanes is a luxury not many can afford, especially now. What do you think they can do to make that change over night? You sound no different from people that hate ALPA until they need the services. You and I both know how that goes.


Seggy said:
To be clear, the guys who tool around in a Piper Cub or a Cessna 172 in flight training should not see a huge operating cost, but there should be a fee to file IFR to use the National Airspace System/Service depending on the size. A small piston or light twin, the cost should be in the $5.00 to $7.00 range. You fly a corporate jet, should be in the $75.00 to $100.00 range. That cost will only fractionally offset the costs that the airlines pay, but it is a start.
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Taxing the little guy. I know you think big boy airplanes belong in the sky and should be the only ones talking to controllers. Remember that first time you flew into class b airspace? Remember the first time you talked to a controller? I'm willing to bet those are some of your fondest memories in aviation and I'm also willing to bet they weren't a**holes to you when you messed things up. Don't forget that there are generations of new pilots just getting started today.

Seggy said:
So do you. Didn't you tell me that your FMS is the 'most advanced' one out there???
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I did. I also said it in jest. You give me crap daily and I thought I would help stir the pot.

You know I have respect for you and the things you have done to help this profession. Unfortunately, you are on your ass on this topic.
 
mshunter said:
Sweet. Lets also do the same thing for 121 then. Imagine how much it would cost for a 73, or a A380 to file an IFR flight plan.

"The Velo is strong with this one master."
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The 121 world is responsible for billions in tax revenue to support filing that IFR Flight plan. In the corporate world, you have a '1%er' getting a tax break for owning a G650 or Slowtation.
 
Inverted25 said:
Seggy why don't we start with having the airlines pay the same fuel tax rates everyone else pays. I bet that would be a big step in the right direction. The user fee for general aviation is a losing battle. Put a fee for filing IFR or talking to controllers and GA pilots for the most part just won't. I know I'll go from having instrument students talking to controllers to me just simulating it. It won't raise the money they predict because usage will go way down. Fuel taxes are a better way because that way everyone is paying every flight. We just need to make airlines pay the same as everyone else. No more breaks for them
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The airlines pay BILLIONS in tax revenue. The corporate operators pay a small fraction for what the airlines pay.
 
amorris311 said:
Lemme hear it! I'm sure I'll see you around and we can share a "coffee" over that conversation.
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Drill baby Drill! I blame oil speculation much more than I do the cost of aircraft, inflation (how much is a CFI nowadays?), etc. You don't HAVE to fly a brand new 172, you can go fly a cherokee 140, 152 (well you and I are too big for one), or an older 172. I fly GA as much as I can, and it really is the cost of fuel that bogs me down. There are days when I'm feeling like a cheap ass so I just put around in a regular cub because it sips 4 gallons an hour. One of my dad's friends has a T-34 I can fly, but heck no I rarely fly it because of how much the damn thing costs to fill up, and it's only the 225 horse version.

GA is hands and fist more expansive than it was when I was growing up. I don't know how people can afford to get their license and fly enough to keep current. It's getting beyond ridiculous. I don't see how GA can survive with added fees. I hear about England and all the fees and just want to vomit in disgust.

Are you in MSP? I'll be there next week for a PT.
 
L-16B said:
It also saddens me to see how many 121 guys have no desire to fly GA anymore.
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That would be me! I absolutely LOVE my job, but the last place I want to be on days off is the airport unless I am going on vacation.
 
L-16B said:
Drill baby Drill! I blame oil speculation much more than I do the cost of aircraft, inflation (how much is a CFI nowadays?), etc. You don't HAVE to fly a brand new 172, you can go fly a cherokee 140, 152 (well you and I are too big for one), or an older 172. I fly GA as much as I can, and it really is the cost of fuel that bogs me down. There are days when I'm feeling like a cheap ass so I just put around in a regular cub because it sips 4 gallons an hour. One of my dad's friends has a T-34 I can fly, but heck no I rarely fly it because of how much the damn thing costs to fill up, and it's only the 225 horse version.

GA is hands and fist more expansive than it was when I was growing up. I don't know how people can afford to get their license and fly enough to keep current. It's getting beyond ridiculous. I don't see how GA can survive with added fees. I hear about England and all the fees and just want to vomit in disgust.

Are you in MSP? I'll be there next week for a PT.
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I hear ya! Thank that hairy bastard and everyone else like him that woke up one morning flying big commercial airplanes. They didn't touch GA. :). Yea I'm here for another month. Let me know when your in town.
 
Seggy said:
The 121 world is responsible for billions in tax revenue to support filing that IFR Flight plan. In the corporate world, you have a '1%er' getting a tax break for owning a G650 or Slowtation.
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So because GA uses 1% of the system, and the majority of it's flights don't go into airports that are served by the airlines they should pay for more than 1% of the system? I mean, we could spread the system like you say, and have people pay per size/weight of the aircraft.

Get off your horse. Read what I say about closing towers. I really don't care if the close a bunch of them that I fly into. I already barely use the system, so I'm not part of problem. The majority of us flying GA aren't. But how many times have you heard about flow restrictions into VNY or BUR, SMO, BFL, etc. Nearly EVERYTIME I depart from those fields, I hear it over the ATIS, "call clearance delivery prior to engine start for flow control into (insert major airline airport here).
 
jtrain609 said:
Back when I learned how to fly, we didn't have towers (because it was the middle of nowhere), we didn't have radar (because it was the middle of nowhere), we didn't have GPS (because it was 1998 and my flight school was broke), and you know what else we didn't have? Mid air collisions! Because we used our Mk. I eyeballs to see and avoid other traffic. A tower outside of Class C airspace is generally a waste of time.

MikeD
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John, take Skymates with 100+ students taking a ESL class in the sky, a major ATP base, Cowboy stadium circus, General Motors plant, mix all that with ice cubes of Barons and Bonanzas and you have a KGKY cocktail.

I'm buying you a plane ticket to go do some pattern work the day that tower closes. :)
 
amorris311 said:
I hear ya! Thank that hairy bastard and everyone else like him that woke up one morning flying big commercial airplanes. They didn't touch GA. :). Yea I'm here for another month. Let me know when your in town.
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When was the last time you flew GA?
 
mshunter said:
So because GA uses 1% of the system, and the majority of it's flights don't go into airports that are served by the airlines they should pay for more than 1% of the system? I mean, we could spread the system like you say, and have people pay per size/weight of the aircraft.
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As I said the airlines pay BILLIONS of dollars towards the NAS. The 1%ers (talking about the people, but their planes clog up the system the same as a 737 would) need to pay their share.
 
Seggy said:
The 121 world is responsible for billions in tax revenue to support filing that IFR Flight plan. In the corporate world, you have a '1%er' getting a tax break for owning a G650 or Slowtation.
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Please tell me about these tax breaks. I have a meeting with my boss next week to discuss the budget. I'd love to be able to give him more information about a tax break that no one on this side of the industry is aware of.
 
ryanmickG said:
John, take Skymates with 100+ students taking a ESL class in the sky, a major ATP base, Cowboy stadium circus, General Motors plant, mix all that with ice cubes of Barons and Bonanzas and you have a KGKY cocktail.
I'm buying you a plane ticket to go do some pattern work the day that tower closes. :)
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Lots of us did pattern work there just fine before the tower opened.
 
Seggy said:
As I said the airlines pay BILLIONS of dollars towards the NAS. The 1%ers (talking about the people, but their planes clog up the system the same as a 737 would) need to pay their share.
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Actually I think the airlines pay less in true TAXES than any other aircraft operator in the country. Less than 4% of the cost of fuel for airlines go towards tax, as opposed to roughly 30% or more of the cost per gallon for corporate and GA aircraft. Airlines have to pay fees for use of the airport but so do GA aircraft in many cases and those fees go towards the airport and local municipalities, not taxes. Ticket taxes? Those are like the sales taxes and are paid directly by the passenger when buying the ticket.

I am very interested in what taxes airlines have to pay that the rest of the aviation community, especially the corporate community doesn't pay.
 
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