Save G.A.

I wonder how the different candidates would feel about any proposed re-regulation.

Again, we are not talking about the government taking over the airlines, folks. We're talking about going back to the system we had in place from the dawn of aviation until the late 1970s.

Think about the airlines not being able to compete on price anymore. They'd need to find something to differentiate their products, and that something might be service!

And Kristie, I think that re-regulation would help GA in the long run. A stable industry, with a pricing system where a low but consistent profit is guaranteed, would make more people willing to take the plunge. That would create more demand for flying at the GA level.
 
My apologies Kristie!:o
I don't support the user fees... And the last thing that I would want is user fees to kill GA. If re-regulation helps out the airline industry so that they can avoid asking for bailouts, while keeping GA reasonably affordable then I'll support it!
 
Back on topic now :p

PCL_128 said:
GA flying is extraordinarily cheap in America. No other country in the world has such cheap access to general aviation. GA pilots basically contribute nothing to the NAS and airport network that they utilize. It's all subsidized by taxes on the airlines. Nothing wrong with wanting people to pay for what they use.
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Take a look at the user fees in Europe and you will see one reason why it is cheaper here anyway. Continuing to use the logic that it is cheaper here gives no one any reason to complain about fuel prices. We had really cheap fuel here and everywhere else it was much more expensive. Using the same logic, our current fuel prices are just fine (and are actually now on par with other countries).

Canada has just started charging GA aircraft additional user fees when originally promised exemption from airport fees. We only say it is a slippery slope because it has shown to be just that in the past. Also look into New Zealand and Australia where user fees trickled down to GA aircraft. It does happen and has always been happening. Once they get implemented it is a matter of time before they get to GA aircraft.

The only way to stop something like this is to stop it at the source, hence the reason why there is a big debate now instead of after BA aircraft have their user fees.

And again the FAA has tried to get user fees on GA already. Check out senate bill S.1076. This is for their own agenda as they try and get away from the general fund which actually currently pays for 23% of our aviation system. By doing this they can free themselves from congress which is a bad thing as it would eliminate any type of checks and balances.

GA and BA is accepting the current house bill. No tax increases for the airlines, but there are good tax increases on GA and BA. I still believe user fees and tax cuts will only be a band-aid for the airlines as the airlines have already been getting money from the government and it hasn't seemed to help.
 
PCL- What is ALPA's stance on this? Are they in agreement that higher GA fee's = less pilots = more money for current pilots?
 
Can you have it both ways? Regulate the airlines again, but keep GA as is? I don't see how the two can't be mutually exclusive.

Everyone should know where I stand on taxes. :)
 
PurduePilot said:
Can you have it both ways? Regulate the airlines again, but keep GA as is? I don't see how the two can't be mutually exclusive.
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They aren't.

And did I just see you calling for regulation of the industry again?

Did the sun come up in the west this morning? :p
 
OTP, this ain't tough to understand:

1. If re-regulation is possible, that is my preferred option

2. If re-regulation is not possible in the current political environment, then I support any efforts to reduce the tax burden on the airlines, including user fees

Clear enough?
 
PCL_128 said:
OTP, this ain't tough to understand:

1. If re-regulation is possible, that is my preferred option

2. If re-regulation is not possible in the current political environment, then I support any efforts to reduce the tax burden on the airlines, including user fees

Clear enough?
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Clear enough to see right through you.
 
tonyw said:
And Kristie, I think that re-regulation would help GA in the long run. A stable industry, with a pricing system where a low but consistent profit is guaranteed, would make more people willing to take the plunge. That would create more demand for flying at the GA level.
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I'm not sure I agree with this, though.

GA for most people, I think, is a hobby-luxury. The level of involvement is relative to the amount of disposable income people have, to a large degree, and I'm not certain that GA would flourish (or not flourish, for that matter) in a re-regulated industry.

I guess what I'm saying is that I don't think GA would be affected really, one way or another.

By the way - I did see an article not too long ago about user fees if they were going to come to GA. I seem to recall that it was going to cost your average 150-hour per year Cessna driver an extra $27 a month or something like that. Not really a major chunk of change, y'know?

Just passing that along. I have no opinion on user fees one way or another.
 
killbilly said:
By the way - I did see an article not too long ago about user fees if they were going to come to GA. I seem to recall that it was going to cost your average 150-hour per year Cessna driver an extra $27 a month or something like that. Not really a major chunk of change, y'know?
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27 bucks a month may not seem like a lot, but neither did a few 50 seat regional jets back in 1993. That was the opening of the "scope erosion" can of worms. I'd like to keep the "user fee" can of worms closed before its drawn from continuously to make up for "general fund deficits", not helping anyone, including airline pilots, in aviation.
 
Old you know its not even worth it to argue...The people who support me first and screw everyone else are the ones who spent as little time as possible in GA before going to an airline...Naturally there would be no loyalty.

PCL...Do me a favor and let me know if your union ever takes a stance on this...What im really looking for is to see if they ever agree with whaty you say "GA cost most = less pilots = more pay for current pilots". I have a couple trips I need to make to the West Coast during the year, and this could help choosing an airline to fly. No way in hell i'd ever give another dollar of money to any carrier in bed with someone that had those beliefs.
 
MikeOH58 said:
PCL...Do me a favor and let me know if your union ever takes a stance on this...What im really looking for is to see if they ever agree with whaty you say "GA cost most = less pilots = more pay for current pilots". I have a couple trips I need to make to the West Coast during the year, and this could help choosing an airline to fly. No way in hell i'd ever give another dollar of money to any carrier in bed with someone that had those beliefs.
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Well hey. . .at least you're not just searching for the cheapest fares.

Err. . .oh wait. . .
 
surreal1221 said:
Well hey. . .at least you're not just searching for the cheapest fares.

Err. . .oh wait. . .
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I make my career in Part 91 General Aviation. Of course I will be defensive and offended to the point I will not give me business to any group or organization that supports the ideas mentioned above.
 
PCL_128 said:
.......user fees that shift some tax burden to business aviation would provide a tax reduction to the airlines which would help them along.......
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And what would the airlines do with the reduced tax burden? Increase profits, or further reduce ticket prices?

Guaranteed there would be a fare sale 3 seconds after legislation is passed.

User fees will not stop what is crippling the industry. It has nothing to do with costs. Its all about post de-regulation startups loballing the current cost and pricing structure and purposly operating at a loss. All the "LCCs" (which should be LCCC for Low Consumer Cost Carriers, as the airlines costs are very comparable to the legacies) are responsible for this including jetBlue, Allegiant, VA, and your beloved AirTran.
 
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