saftey pilot, anywhere

ppragman said:
You're only as good as your word. Don't work someplace while giving the impression you're going to stick around, then bail after 50 hrs of night.
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Who says the only way to do this is to make a promise you won't keep? You don't always have to promise 40 years of loyalty in order to get a job. First of all, unless you've got a 135 job lined up already, you're not going to leave after you log your 50th hour. And even if you do have a job lined up, whose to say that job will still be there months down the road when your logbook is finally ready? If they want some sort of time commitment up front, negotiate it or apply somewhere else.
 
Joe Gremlin said:
Ok you're right, I'll take another stab at it.
Do you think for a moment that anyone with more hours than you who needs a job is going to pass on whatever 135 gig you hope to get 'because some other pilot might need that stepping stone job too'? For that matter, do you think that anyone with more hours than you who needs a job is going to pass on that part 91 gig if that's all they can get?

You keep saying you don't want to hurt the industry. But that's kind of like a mobster getting on the witness stand and saying that he didn't want to kill all those people. If you don't want to hurt the industry, then don't hurt the industry. Working for free hurts the industry. You don't have to be an algebra teacher to figure out the math in this situation.

So in short, yes I think its better to commit to a job and then leave when a better opportunity comes along than it is to prostitute yourself out for free. You have to take care of yourself. But you also have do whatever you can to take care of the industry you hope to someday eek a living from. Don't work for free.

Let's face it, even if you posted your offer for safety pilot/free flight instruction everywhere on the net, it would still probably take you a good six months at best to accumulate 50 hours of night time. If you get a job at a busy flight school and schedule as much time at night as possible, you could probably pick up 50 hours in less than 3 months. And if its a busy flight school, they're going to so used to CFI's rotating out after a couple of months that they won't even notice when you're gone. And that's only one possiblity. There are others. Find a 135 that uses F/Os and pump gas on their ramp until an F/O quits. F/O's don't need to be PIC qualified and once you're in the seat, you'll be getting twin turbine time instead of humping frieght around all night in a tired cherokee six. The point is there are other options besides giving it away for free.
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He's not working for free, technically, the FAA delineates flight time as compensation.

BTW, humping freight all night in a tired C6 is good for you, it'll help you learn. As for the comparison of murder and working for cheap (and flight time is cheap) you've got to be kidding me. That comparison is ridiculous. You've gotta do what you've gotta do to get by, and I don't think anything you're going to type on this forum is going to change that fact. He needs the night time, and he needs the hrs, more power to him. Safety piloting for cheap is way better than PFT/PFJ, and he has the opportunity to maybe spread some experience around and help out other guys.

And finally, Kurt Russel is a member of project pilot, is Snake Plisken hurting this industry?
 
Joe Gremlin said:
Who says the only way to do this is to make a promise you won't keep? You don't always have to promise 40 years of loyalty in order to get a job. First of all, unless you've got a 135 job lined up already, you're not going to leave after you log your 50th hour. And even if you do have a job lined up, whose to say that job will still be there months down the road when your logbook is finally ready? If they want some sort of time commitment up front, negotiate it or apply somewhere else.
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What kind of experience in the 135 world do you have? Out of curiosity.
 
Joe Gremlin said:
I have enough experience with it to know its something I have zero desire to do.
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So clearly you've never been involved with a 135 operator in anyway shape or form. Out of curiosity again, in what realm of aviation does your lofty palace reside?
 
ppragman said:
So clearly you've never been involved with a 135 operator in anyway shape or form. Out of curiosity again, in what realm of aviation does your lofty palace reside?
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Never been involved with one? No, that would be incorrect. But I have no desire to get into a resume fight with you or anyone else. I have my opinions, you have yours. I think giving pilot services away is bad for the industry and regardless of what the FAA thinks about the subject, flying for logbook hours only is flying for free. If you think I'm wrong about that, then I guess I'm just going to have to find a way to live my life knowing that someone on the internet disagrees with me. The horror.
 
Joe Gremlin said:
Never been involved with one? No, that would be incorrect. But I have no desire to get into a resume fight with you or anyone else. I have my opinions, you have yours. I think giving pilot services away is bad for the industry and regardless of what the FAA thinks about the subject, flying for logbook hours only is flying for free. If you think I'm wrong about that, then I guess I'm just going to have to find a way to live my life knowing that someone on the internet disagrees with me. The horror.
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Its not that you're entirely wrong, it does suck for you when you're looking for work and someone else is offering to do it for less, however, getting a company to bring you on, and commit the capital to train you takes some commitment on your part. Every ma & pop 135 in my area expects either a season (summer season, the busy part) or a year. If you give them less than that, you're bending them over.
 
Flight schools are part 91. Some want a time commitment, others don't care. My suggestion that the OP find a 135 op and work on their ramp until sliding into a right seat wasn't given with the assumption that he do that in order to build the 50 hours he thinks he needs, it was given with the assumption that it's another way to get yourself into a 135 job without needing to scrounge for safety pilot time.

I know that its tough out there. But so many guys look at 135 mins as though they're some sort of brick wall you need to rise above in order draw a paycheck from any 135 operator. I'm simply suggesting that there are other ways to get yourself a job without feeling like it's pointless to even try until you get those elusive mins. I know plenty of guys who have drawn 135 paychecks when they were well below the PIC mins.
 
Joe Gremlin said:
Flight schools are part 91. Some want a time commitment, others don't care. My suggestion that the OP find a 135 op and work on their ramp until sliding into a right seat wasn't given with the assumption that he do that in order to build the 50 hours he thinks he needs, it was given with the assumption that it's another way to get yourself into a 135 job without needing to scrounge for safety pilot time.

I know that its tough out there. But so many guys look at 135 mins as though they're some sort of brick wall you need to rise above in order draw a paycheck from any 135 operator. I'm simply suggesting that there are other ways to get yourself a job without feeling like it's pointless to even try until you get those elusive mins. I know plenty of guys who have drawn 135 paychecks when they were well below the PIC mins.
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That, imo, would be bad for the profession.
 
Flying for free is bad for the profession. As I once read on this forum "It takes pilots to fly planes and planes would not fly with out them". Just my .02.
 
So, how exactly do you know what it is like to be an out of work, qualified pilot? I have taken my job on the ground and waited, Ive traveled to new destinations to look for work and I have added a CFI rating to my cert just to make sure that I can fall back on something. Don't you think it is a little hypocritical for you to tell me how i am hurting an industry that I am working in while you are not? If flying is your passion, and you want to do it for a living but dont because the market is bad, how exactly is that helping anything? I cant say. I dont want to judge you on something that I have no reference to, so, why dont you do the same for me.
 
NOGUFFCHET said:
So, how exactly do you know what it is like to be an out of work, qualified pilot? I have taken my job on the ground and waited, Ive traveled to new destinations to look for work and I have added a CFI rating to my cert just to make sure that I can fall back on something. Don't you think it is a little hypocritical for you to tell me how i am hurting an industry that I am working in while you are not? If flying is your passion, and you want to do it for a living but dont because the market is bad, how exactly is that helping anything? I cant say. I dont want to judge you on something that I have no reference to, so, why dont you do the same for me.
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I don't know if you are the same Olga which advertised his free services on Controller.com ? If so, rest assured that working for free (and holding out to do so) will hurt you more than it will accelerate things. The moment you stop chasing the 135 goal with white knuckles it will work out for you. It's like flying, you know? Let go a bit and things get better.

Sounds terribly flat, I know - but I'm sure one or two people in here know how it's meant. Relax! 1500 and FAR135 mins get you nothing. Not right now. Not competitive. I leave it up to you, to perceive this as a "jerky reaction". It wasn't meant that way. Good luck.
 
you're a professional pilot, right?

Things are going pretty well for me actually, I'm headed back to do some cub flying in the southeast and will make some money doing it. I dont remember me using all caps when I posted this thread. I just want to get those hours out of the way when I can, I still dont see what is so wrong with that, espaecially when I would be working with another pilot to do it.
The controller ad was probably me, I dont remember what I said with it as it was a while ago. as for your idea of letting go a little and letting things happen, I totally agree. I dont however see how posting an ad to saftey pilot for someone is not going with the flow.
 
NOGUFFCHET said:
you're a professional pilot, right?

Things are going pretty well for me actually, I'm headed back to do some cub flying in the southeast and will make some money doing it. I dont remember me using all caps when I posted this thread. I just want to get those hours out of the way when I can, I still dont see what is so wrong with that, espaecially when I would be working with another pilot to do it.
The controller ad was probably me, I dont remember what I said with it as it was a while ago. as for your idea of letting go a little and letting things happen, I totally agree. I dont however see how posting an ad to saftey pilot for someone is not going with the flow.
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As I said. If there is a will to misinterpret what someone else says there is a way. Always been that way, always will be.
Maybe th problem is that you solicited your CFI services for a couch. I don't expect people who have to put food on the table with what they do get all wet and fluffy about that. You say 50 hours is not hurting the profession. Someone else will deem 150 hours just fine. I was slapped for not being paid while receiving dual in a part 91 twin (because I am a commercial pilot) changed my mind and am considerably militant now. What do I know?

Cheerio!
 
NOGUFFCHET said:
So, how exactly do you know what it is like to be an out of work, qualified pilot?
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You asked what I do and I told you. If you had asked whether or not I have any professional pilot experience, my answer would have been different. I've already said that I have no interest in getting into a resume cock fight with anyone. I did my time working in the biz. I was an unemployable low timer just like you. I worked low timer jobs until I got the hours I needed and doors opened up. In my case, I got to the point where I had quite a few open doors and I decided that I loved flying planes and hated flying planes for a living so I got out and did something else.

If it makes you feel better to believe that I'm a guy with no experience who is talking out of my butt, then so be it. I no longer have a dog in this race so I'm not going to lose any sleep either way. It's your career and your industry. Run them both however you see fit.
 
youre right, i shouldnt try to fill in the gaps in my logbook where i can, i should only accept top tier payment since the ink on my CFI is almost totally dry now and im the only one around. I dont mean to be short or cynical, its just that i cant understand why i get so much negative feedback on these forums about the job market, then more negative feedback when i try to help out my resume by helping other perspective pilots.:confused:
 
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