Sad Realization

z987k said:
Not as much as you think. I was told by a recruiter directly to get some 121 time. And so here I am.
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Like I said, that's not what I was told. I have a business card from one of them somewhere around the house. Maybe I should them an email.
 
KLB said:
Nope. The reason the majors aren't hiring 135 freight guys is simply because HR is in charge of it. Around mid 2000 (during the lull in the industry) having prior 121 time became and another way to trim down the list.

It has nothing to do with the it being so different or difficult. If that was the case military guys wouldn't get hired.

I've left AMF with some good experience that's proven good for me in my current gig and that's nothing to be ashamed of. I'd still recommend AMF as a good experience builder after instructing. You have a lot of AMF hate for some reason. Haha
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Whatever...

I am an AMF alum, and I am proud of the experience and knowledge I gained, as well I am a big fan of everyone that works there, it's a great pilot group.

That being said, it doesn't matter what excuses anyone makes. You can say it's HR, but that's very one dimensional. The actual reality is that they consider qualities outside of AMF and 135 freight to be more desirable. I don't know how anyone can disagree with that, it's fact, and it's evidenced daily by the majors hiring constantly.

I haven't heard a single caravan FedEx driver wonder why he/she doesn't get hired to the majors. Why? Because they know their place in the food chain. AMF has done a cultural disservice to their pilots by convincing them that the majors are easily achieved. I don't know how many other ways the world can prove this stuff for the pilot group. It doesn't matter how many NDB approaches, it doesn't matter how black the night was, and how IMC the weather was in your Metro. None of it matters to a hiring board at the top 3.
 
Isn't it ironic that people that have never flown part 121 are saying that there is no difference between 135 and 121. If you haven't flown part 121, you really can't say that there isn't any difference.
 
Inverted said:
These AMF threads are getting old. At some point the AMF group needs to read the writing on the wall. There are multiple people in here telling you guys that your perception of how good you are, and how the flying you do is as relevant to the 121 world as every other facet of aviation are completely false.

Every time somebody tries to share a real world example of how it is, a current or former AMFer has to chime in defensively to say that you do all that stuff too. The bottom line, is if it were true, we would see guys go from AMF to the majors in droves and that is not the case.

Passengers add an entire new dynamic in which the average freight guy has no clue about. 121 SOPs are similar to how AMF operates (standardized flow followed by a checklist, standard callouts etc.). But that's where the cockpit operation similarities end. It's just a fact. It's evidenced by the hiring climate now. At the end of the day, for whatever the reason, it is the way it is and no amount of excuses will change the minds in charge of hiring.
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While I'm not doubting the above, how then does an F-16 guy, with maybe 100 hours multiengine from UPT (all centerline thrust anyway), and the rest Jet SEL time, go directly to a mainline? With no 121 experience or pax hauling experience and no crew experience; and the experience he does have in air-air, dogfighting, bombing, anti-IADS, FACing, etc, all of it being even less relevant for 121 than what any AMF guy has?

How does that figure in to the above theory?
 
MikeD said:
While I'm not doubting the above, how then does an F-16 guy, with maybe 100 hours multiengine from UPT (all centerline thrust anyway), and the rest Jet SEL time, go directly to a mainline? With no 121 experience or pax hauling experience and no crew experience; and the experience he does have in air-air, dogfighting, bombing, anti-IADS, FACing, etc, all of it being even less relevant for 121 than what any AMF guy has?

How does that figure in to the above theory?
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F-16 guy just uses pure instinct, you can't teach that. There's no time to think, if you think- you're dead!
 
MikeD said:
While I'm not doubting the above, how then does an F-16 guy, with maybe 100 hours multiengine from UPT (all centerline thrust anyway), and the rest Jet SEL time, go directly to a mainline? With no 121 experience or pax hauling experience and no crew experience; and the experience he does have in air-air, dogfighting, bombing, anti-IADS, FACing, etc, all of it being even less relevant for 121 than what any AMF guy has?

How does that figure in to the above theory?
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Well by in large it is hard for them too. You are ex military and flew non centerline multi engine stuff, are almost guaranteed a job at Delta. Lay the end of the day, the closest you can get to the type of flying, and type of equipment, the better your chances for an interview. The farther you get from that type of flying, the more you need to compensate (check airmen, DO, CP etc.) in other areas.
 
Derg said:
@Autothrust Blue has wing-slung engines, just like the big boys.

Wait wait wait, nah, let me put this correctly. He's got wing slung engines, like the 737… "Ya know, the big ones". #swacommercial
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Slats, two MCDUs (mine may NOT be deferred!), two flight attendants, two lavs, wing-slung engines, first class, big bins, room for my bag up front, and CAT II. Genuflect when y'all say that.

(not)
 
Boyington said:
Isn't it ironic that people that have never flown part 121 are saying that there is no difference between 135 and 121. If you haven't flown part 121, you really can't say that there isn't any difference.
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I find it equally interesting that there are assumptions being made about AMF by people that haven't flown for AMF or flown freight in general.

I dunno, it's not difficult to compare notes and I'm not seeing a vast difference. Especially in regards to the Brasilia.(Which isn't a big deal or even a remotely challenging learning curve) Sorry...

I'm not dumb, I understand the environment today. No I will not be holding out here if the airlines is what I want to do. All I'm responding to in this thread are things that I think are inaccurate. We do get releases, we do have to coordinate with multiple company departments and the customer to fix problems. We do have to coordinate with ground personel to service the airplane. I do have to delegate tasks to the FO, or complete tasks designated to me if I'm the FO. Haven't even touched the international stuff yet. The Brasilia automation isn't any more archaic than what is on a CRJ 200, 700, 900 or an ERJ 135/45 and is integrated with the GPS. Hell the only diffrence is how information is displayed, but all of the exact same information is there.

Nope we don't have pax, that we do not have to deal with. If that is the final argument, fine, I'll refrain from all further discussion. I'm not going to accept that we don't do every thing else identically though (which has been brought up in this thread), because that's just not true.
 
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It all comes down to supply and demand. Hiring is still a little slow and they still have enough military, which that in itself is a high standard, as well as 121 check airmen and instructors. As soon as that supply runs out or gets thin, they'll take more 121 FOs, and 135 pilots. There are differences between the two types of flying bit nothing that can't be sorted out in training. And I know I'm just getting started in the 135 world but in my opinion 121 flying is the easiest flying there is. Everything is done for you, your job is just not to mess it up.
 
UAL747400 said:
I find it equally interesting that there are assumptions being made about AMF by people that haven't flown for AMF or flown freight in general.

I dunno, it's not difficult to compare notes and I'm not seeing a vast difference. Especially in regards to the Brasilia.(Which isn't a big deal or even a remotely challenging learning curve) Sorry...
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It is easy to imagine how something is, but until you experience it, you really don't know. That was my point. I will listen to the people who have flown AMF and 121. They have the experience and know the differences. This is just like the Boy Scouts saying that they are just as good as Marines. I can hear the arguments now...we both wear uniforms, sleep in tents, and eat terrible food. The only difference is that the Marines kill people, and the Boy Scouts don't. So, they are mostly the same!!! (sarcasm, of course - but this is equally as ridiculous as your argument. Unless you have done both and can compare them, then you are just speculating)

How is AMF different than the other part 135 cargo carriers? Subair, Air Cargo, Wiggins, Mountain, etc.... I have not flown for them, but I do not consider them to be any better or worse than AMF.
 
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