Sad Realization

z987k said:
Not really. I mean 121 scheduled pax ops are different than any 135, but it's not the flying. It's the ground ops, paperwork, dealing with other bs. I don't know why a reasonably intelligent person couldn't have them mastered from both seats in a hundred hours or so. And you are right, airliners are ancient compared to anything new on the other side of the airport.

And actually there is 121 flying that is way way more like and really indistinguishable from a lot of 135 flying. But that must be in my head because we all know that 121 flying is only jets with 50 or more pax seats in them. No turboprops, no freight, no on-demand and everything has FMS. Yup. :rolleyes:
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You are probably being tongue in cheek but: line check airmen and training departments get aneurisms when guys don't complete the training in the minimum amount of time. That's 8 to 9 fully packed sim sessions and 25 hours of OE.

The biggest problem from "a 135 guy" that I have seen is inability to transition to a QRH that tells you what to do and when to do it. He did not make it through.
 
SpiceWeasel said:
You are probably being tongue in cheek but: line check airmen and training departments get aneurisms when guys don't complete the training in the minimum amount of time. That's 8 to 9 fully packed sim sessions and 25 hours of OE.

The biggest problem from "a 135 guy" that I have seen is inability to transition to a QRH that tells you what to do and when to do it. He did not make it through.
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I've seen a few 135 SP guys, how do you say, "fail to adapt" to having (1) an extra set of eyes, ears, brains, and hands and (2) having standard operating procedures and QRHs.

Different mindset over there.
 
UAL747400 said:
I was more referring to, did you ever see any of the 121 crap that was *OMG, 121 is SO different, you MUST have 121 to fly 121!!!!!!!1111!!!!111!* that is perpetuated in this thread and the thread I started couple weeks ago.
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Airline pilots like hiring other airline pilots. ;)
 
Autothrust Blue said:
Airline pilots like hiring other airline pilots. ;)
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Doesn't that make sense to you though?

There is an obvious hierarchy in who the majors decide to hire. Sure they want previous 121 guys, they know the game, and have been doing basically the same job. Our company (large 135 on demand charter) has been loosing guys to the top 3 as well. So it seems like multi crew jet time is also very desirable. As you go further down the list, there is a lesser chance of getting called and that is an absolute fact based on the industry now.
 
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It's gonna continue to happen. Our company is scared to death of it, and they pay well above the average, in fact in most cases above the high range of NBAA salaries. And this is a good company, it isn't even close to a bottom feeder 135 and if we can't keep guys from going to the airlines (because duh) then nobody can.

So yes ask for the raise.
 
SpiceWeasel said:
It is hard for a 135 guy to check "TPIC 121" box, and we have difficulty checking the "not just a 121 trained monkey" box.
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The only 135s I've seen that had a problem with hiring airline guys were A) Single pilot (which is sort of understandable) or B) Mostly concerned with the fact that airline guys tend to write things up/not fly broken airplanes.

Now, don't get me wrong, I agree with you that you're all just a bunch of talentless hacks, but I don't think that's of much concern to 135 hiring.
 
SpiceWeasel said:
You are probably being tongue in cheek but: line check airmen and training departments get aneurisms when guys don't complete the training in the minimum amount of time. That's 8 to 9 fully packed sim sessions and 25 hours of OE.

The biggest problem from "a 135 guy" that I have seen is inability to transition to a QRH that tells you what to do and when to do it. He did not make it through.
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Must have been a pretty low time or very small airplane 135 guy. 2 of the turboprops I've flown have had a QRH, and every part 25 jet I've sat in has had one. Maybe older one's don't? @UAL747400, I imagine the EMB-120 (metro to?)has a QRH at the freight operator?
My biggest complaint with 121 training was how long it was. We could have accomplished everything in half the time(and got paid more sooner - that's really the complaint), but that's probably airline specific since most training programs are a bit different from each other.

SpiceWeasel said:
It's the weirdest thing and totally the same with 135 hiring departments.

Good to know they feel the same about 121 hiring them that we feel about 135 hiring us. It is hard for a 135 guy to check "TPIC 121" box, and we have difficulty checking the "not just a 121 trained monkey" box.
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Well it's funny. From my perspective - freight, charter, medevac and now 121 in the crj. If I were in charge of hiring at a charter outfit, I'd never even glance at someone with only right seat rj time. Based on what my current job is, I just don't see how you can build the airmanship needed from the right seat of an rj. Just my opinion. And I'm sure there are people that'd be fine, but they're going to be the outliers. Compared to my previous jobs I actually feel like a trained monkey.
 
tonyw said:
That thing still exists? Wow.
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Sure does. Actually I'm surprised I haven't stolen one from a local news stand yet. I'm so used to them being free in hotels that its only a matter of time till I walk past a stack of them in an airport and take one without thinking.
 
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