Sad but True

The only problem with decertifying NDB approaches is that some of us might lose our ADF RX's in the airplane, thus lose all ability to listen to "Radio Disney" while bored to death over the eastern seaboard.
 
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The only problem with decertifying NDB approaches is that some of us might lose our ADF RX's in the airplane, thus lose all ability to listen to "Radio Disney" while bored to death over the eastern seaboard.

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I was lucky...I got NPR and lots of Jesus music over western NC and eastern TN!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Then I started flying that darn 430-equipped airplane with no ADF....but the audio input made the plane MP3 heaven!!! Nothing like hip-hop and heavy metal at night to keep you awake, and The Beach Boys to calm your nerves in IMC during summer T-storm season!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
 
Even funnier, I was flying a localizer approach in a driving, turbluent snow storm up in Marquette, MI, and Squirrel Nut Zippers "The Afterlife" was playing on the ADF.

Most surreal approach I'd ever flown!
 
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

How many layfolks do you think lurk and read this stuff and freak out??
 
Hi this is for Kristie...

Hey Kristie.... no sorry to put it out that way. My friend did not get furloughed due to the failed checkride.... it was the whole TWA and the seniority thing....

I just wanted to make a point that NDBs are still around... and by the way I would sign that petition too! ( Loyd's that is...)

Thanks for the lesson though... even though I had that information I appreciate you patience...




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That being said, I also think that it is just as important, if not MORE important, that they be able to navigate and execute approaches using GPS. This is the future! So, I make sure that I teach them NDB's. I teach them that it's important. I teach them that the FAA may want to test them on it.



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I couldn't agree with you more that students need to learn GPS also. As a source of navigation, they have to learn the GPS as well as they do the NDB. For ease of use, the Garmin 430's are a joy. GPS nav and approaches are definitely easier and more accurate than NDB's, but I saw students tending to get lulled into complacency with their navigating on cross country flights using the GPS. Is this dangerous with the reliability of todays equipment? Only time will tell.

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The only problem with decertifying NDB approaches is that some of us might lose our ADF RX's in the airplane, thus lose all ability to listen to "Radio Disney" while bored to death over the eastern seaboard.



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Holy Cow Doug, I forgot all about the best radio format on the AM dial. How sickenly "pop" and fake is that radio program? But for some odd reason Disney Radio is like a Siren's song beckoning you to come along and listen. "Come, come, listen to me and my Disney family and cheesy pop music." The scary part is when you catch your Captain singing along. When they start to bust a move in the cockpit, lookout. Not a sight to behold. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buck.gif
Ahh, radio Disney. Good stuff for the bored pilot. I flew with a Captain a few months back that flew cargo in a previous life. He said he would have died without his Radio Disney to keep him company on those long lonely night flights. It seems pilots are the only ones that know about it. Go figure.

And speaking of Disney, this thread talk of NDB's and the future is now world of GPS kind of reminds me of the "Carousel of Progress". Probably to old of a ride for alot of the guys on here, the same ones that don't know what an E-ticket is. Ahh progress "Now is the time, now is the best time...Okay starting to ramble have to get ready for my trip and another hurricane. Hopefully have a house to come back to when I get back.Greaaaaat!
 
Now I was not expecting such a long discussion on NDBs...


I was told that some schools deactivate the ADF's in their airplanes so they don't have to subject their students to NDB intercepting and tracking and NDB appraches and holds... They do that so they can maintain their pass rate and keep their 141 status...

And the point was:

$1000 CFII or $5000 CFII courses.... in the end they might look like they are the same exact licenses.... but I have to argue that the end product ( the CFII ) is not equal....



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$1000 CFII or $5000 CFII courses.... in the end they might look like they are the same exact licenses.... but I have to argue that the end product ( the CFII ) is not equal....


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Price isn't the determining factor there...I know a whole lot of CFII's that spent less than $1000 for the ticket and are great. I know others that spent $5000 (or more) and they suck.

Cost isn't everything....
 
The other thing that NDB approaches teach, is indirectly how to use an RMI. I was lucky when doing my instrument rating as the FSI Seminoles actually have RMI's, but I would hate to have a student that goes all the way to their first 135/airline job not knowing how to track the needle of an RMI. Even in a glass cockpit using an FMS, I often have a RMI needle up and I am comfortable using it since I know how to do an NDB approach.

I also do not understand why there was some discussion about not doing DME arcs because the aircraft only had a GNS430. The GPS works just as good as DME when doing the arc. Maybe I am missing something?
 
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It seems pilots are the only ones that know about it. Go figure.

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And parents of 8-year old girls.... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
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The other thing that NDB approaches teach, is indirectly how to use an RMI.

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The head always falls, the tail always rises! If you remember that, and that the tail indicates the radial you're on, the rest is cherry pie!!!
 
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The other thing that NDB approaches teach, is indirectly how to use an RMI.

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The head always falls, the tail always rises!

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Unless you're in the southern hemisphere.
















/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif ....and if you buy that.......
 
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The other thing that NDB approaches teach, is indirectly how to use an RMI.

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The head always falls, the tail always rises!

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Unless you're in the southern hemisphere.
















/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif ....and if you buy that.......

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/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Now, I'm not that stupid.... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 
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It seems pilots are the only ones that know about it. Go figure.

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And parents of 8-year old girls.... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

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I know about Radio Disney.... I have to listen to it everyday. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/insane.gif
 
Actually Loyd,

I tend to agree that money isn't everything...

And there is the fact that the best pilots aren't always the best instructors... and vice versa....

In the same line of thinking we could say that just because you attended an Ivy League school it doesn't mean that you are a better professional....but the odds are against that, and that is why Ivy Leaguers have a better shot right out of the oven...

In reality it all depends on the instructor's ability and the student's motivation. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
NDB\'s

Well back to the NDB argument.

All I am asking is for you to read the new AOPA Flight Training (Oct. issue) page 73, "The GPS Syndrome." I know we're all going to have to agree to disagree, but there is some good info to be had.

Also, I asked a Comair FO that was on campus today if he had ever shot an NDB since he's been at the Airline. He said just the other day, he was trying to get into montreal and the ILS was inop. He was asked if he could see the field, when he repiled that he couldn't, he was cleared for the NDB. Guess it was nice to be able to shoot it and get his plane safely to the ground.
 
Re: NDB\'s

Yes, the AOPA article is very cute and all, and I agree 100% that pilots need to be able to fly on more than GPS. I was having a conversation just yesterday with some fellow CFI's about this.

I also feel that sometimes we have to let go of certain technologies. The NDB still has a little bit of life - very little. So, we teach it. We stay proficient, and I won't miss it when it's gone.

The AOPA article mentioned "The GPS unit failed....pilot was confused...". Yes, it's possible. I, however, have had way more problems with ADF's than with GPS. It's almost like saying, "Not having my seatbelt on could save my life..."

Right.
 
Re: NDB\'s

Shooting and NDB approach on a 172 and a CRJ are 2 different animals. Speaking from experience shooting NDB APP on the CRJ is very simple (it is just like shooting a VOR approach). Even shooting the NDB App raw data is not that difficult.

Although it is a good idea to be familiar with the NDB there is no reason (other than to milk students) to make it the main focus of instrument training.
 
Re: NDB\'s

"Although it is a good idea to be familiar with the NDB there is no reason (other than to milk students) to make it the main focus of instrument training. "

NDB is not the main focus of instrument training at DCA. It is however one of the tasks that are taught. Your insinuation that NDB's are used to "milk" students is unfortunate. On that note, I would rather be "milked", and learn all that I can, than be "spared" with partial and incomplete training. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
 
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