Run up question

jtrain609 said:
I just never did an after takeoff checklist...or a climb checklist...or a cruise checklist...or a descent checklist...ahh...yeah never when I was flying 172.

I just kinda flew the airplane.

Bigger planes and I was obviously taught to do all that. But in 172's? I was only taught to run em on the ground, and it never seemed to be an issue for a DE.
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Flow - check, flow - check. Even in the 172 I do that, even though its the easiest simplest airplane imaginable. Its important.
 
minitour said:
And that's no problem at all. If you don't want to do it, so be it. But saying "that's a good way to get in trouble" is ludicrous. You can't just make blanket statements like that and expect it to apply all the time. If you aren't comfy with it, don't do it.
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I never made a blanket statement did I?

Program that stuff before you start it up. Get a GPU, start up and program it while you're waiting for engine temps to stabilize...your stuff should be programed by the time you hit the taxiway.
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I said I did

30 seconds of my time is very valuable to me. If you want to do a run-up at a complete stop, pull off somewhere so you aren't holding up the show. That's all that would really piss me off, is if I followed you in the mighty SR22 to the end only to get to wait while you do your 5 minute run-up. How long do you need to watch the RPM drop on the mag check anyway? 30 seconds should be it. Cycle the boots, cycle the prop, check the mags, maybe lean the mixture if it's appropriate, check the electrical load. If you know your airplane it shouldn't take more than 30 seconds. If not, you should be with an instructor learning your airplane.
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Where did I say I took 5 minutes for a runup? I said I took less than 30 seconds. just like you want me to. Now if there is no place for me to go, you are going to have to wait. Its never been a problem on the few occasions that someone has been behind me (corp jets, airlines etc). I don't know how you are so different than all the other pilots out there, but whatever floats your boat.

edit: That being said if you are a lifeguard flight etc. I'll be more than willing to go out of my way to let you through. But for some holier than thou jet jockey, back-taxi, or wait in line.
 
OldTownPilot said:
But for some holier than thou jet jockey,
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:rolleyes:

Sorry, but I'm not in the mood to buy an extra 200 pounds of fuel so some hot shot Cirrus captain can do his run-up at the hold short line. Either do it on the ramp if you aren't comfortable with doing it on the taxi or pull over somewhere else. Don't hold up the rest of us that have our _ together.

-mini
 
minitour said:
:rolleyes:

Sorry, but I'm not in the mood to buy an extra 200 pounds of fuel so some hot shot Cirrus captain can do his run-up at the hold short line. Either do it on the ramp if you aren't comfortable with doing it on the taxi or pull over somewhere else. Don't hold up the rest of us that have our _ together.

-mini
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Just curious, what do you fly that burns 24,000 lbs/hr (200 lbs in 30 seconds) on the ground?
 
OldTownPilot said:
Just curious, what do you fly that burns 24,000 lbs/hr (200 lbs in 30 seconds) on the ground?
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Just curious, why can't you do the run up on the ramp or in the pad? Why do you feel you're so important that you can hold up everyone else?

...we plan 200# for the taxi. If the taxi takes super long because some hot shot in front of us wants to do his run-up at the hold short line, then yeah...we'd need more fuel. We're running with max loads more often than not.

-mini
 
minitour said:
Just curious, why can't you do the run up on the ramp or in the pad? Why do you feel you're so important that you can hold up everyone else?

...we plan 200# for the taxi. If the taxi takes super long because some hot shot in front of us wants to do his run-up at the hold short line, then yeah...we'd need more fuel. We're running with max loads more often than not.

-mini
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A, There is no pad, B, The temps aren't up until I get to the runway.

I'm not sure if you are bagging Cirruses, because of a specific bad experience, or because of me. Let me tell you that 10% of Cirrus pilots, make up that stereotype that 90% of us have to deal with. I don't like dealing with them just as much as you don't.

In several hundred flights I've held up two jets, for a combined total of maybe 10 seconds. It just doesn't happen all that often, and that is at a busy coastal Maine summer destination.

How long does that 200 lbs last at ground idle?
 
OldTownPilot said:
A, There is no pad, B, The temps aren't up until I get to the runway.
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Sit on the ramp at idle longer.

I'm not sure if you are bagging Cirruses, because of a specific bad experience, or because of me. Let me tell you that 10% of Cirrus pilots, make up that stereotype that 90% of us have to deal with. I don't like dealing with them just as much as you don't.
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Hey, you flung that poo first (I believe it was "hot shot jet jockey"). I just flung it back. I can play word games too.

How long does that 200 lbs last at ground idle?
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How long does it last or how long does our POI say we have until we need to start counting "non taxi fuel" for the taxi? The two are different...our POI is a moron. God forbid we use actual fuel flows.

-mini
 
BajtheJino said:
Begin Rant
NO, NO, NO!!! You do not do your runup at the hold short line no matter what size the airport is. What about people that might be behind you? You either do it while taxi-ing down to the runway or you do it someplace out of the way where you won't hold anyone up. This happens every so often and when flow control is in effect and we've only got four to six minutes to get from the ramp to get off the runway and we get someone in front of us that thinks the hold short line is their run up pad we get screwed. Every airport provides some sort of runup area. Use it. End rant.
When you fly out of an airport without an ATIS you report you have "the weather". You don't have numbers. You have weather. End second rant.
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I disagree just turn the plane at a 45 or 90 degree angle and your good. If someone is behind you thats a different story.
 
ctab5060X said:
Load airplane.

Climb in, check everything a second time, start engines.

Close cowl flaps.

Copy ATIS, get clearance.

Start paperwork.

Engines warm.

Do run up.

Call for taxi.
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You quoted me but must have missed my first word. BTW, it was "Generally" :D
 
Wow, 4 pages of how to do a run-up. I think it's safe to say that a pilot is legal to do his run-up at the hold short line prior to flight, even if that means aircraft behind him have to wait. I don't think I've ever seen a FAR relating to that. I'd even go so far as to say sure, you've got the right to perform your run-up there.

But - is it really that hard to agree on the fact that the courteous (and most efficient) way to operate is to perform your run-up somewhere other than the hold short line, be it the ramp, an intersection, a defined run-up pad, or on top of the mulch pile. Why can't we agree that the best operating practice (in most, but not all scenarios) is to have all pre-takeoff requirements complete prior to reaching the hold short line?
 
I don't think I've ever been held up by someone doing their runup at the hold short line... what DOES bug me though are the people that TAKE UP THE ENTIRE RUN-UP AREA... WTF PEOPLE!
 
I did a run up once in a Gulfstream Cheetah prior to taking off in 45 knot winds gusting to 55 knots. I had to hold the nose down to prevent lift-off.

A moment later with the engine back at idle I checked for full and free movement of controls and when I hauled back on the column with engine at idle we lifted off vertically.

Bet none of you have ever gotten airborne in a pre take off drill ?
 
OhioStatePilot said:
legal
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What?
OhioStatePilot said:
I've ever seen a FAR relating to that. I'd even go so far as to say sure, you've got the right to perform your run-up there.
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Its all about being professional and courteous. You hold me up at the hold short line and your costing someone dollars per second and it could mean the difference between filling out a delay report or not. Sound like no big deal does it? Your thinking that you own the hold short line is like tumbling a single domino that in the end affects 30-40 people and potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars if the over night docs miss their connection.

OhioStatePilot said:
But - is it really that hard to agree on the fact that the courteous (and most efficient) way to operate is to perform your run-up somewhere other than the hold short line, be it the ramp, an intersection, a defined run-up pad, or on top of the mulch pile. Why can't we agree that the best operating practice (in most, but not all scenarios) is to have all pre-takeoff requirements complete prior to reaching the hold short line?
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Remember this. It will serve you all of your days.
 
Well I suppose it's unreasonable to bite someone's head off for saying they're unsure of the etiquette. Better to encourage people to ask dumb questions than to suppress it until they screw up in the cockpit.

Need a little give and take with inexperience too. Not just in the holding area.
 
BajtheJino said:
What?

Its all about being professional and courteous. You hold me up at the hold short line and your costing someone dollars per second and it could mean the difference between filling out a delay report or not. Sound like no big deal does it? Your thinking that you own the hold short line is like tumbling a single domino that in the end affects 30-40 people and potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars if the over night docs miss their connection.


Remember this. It will serve you all of your days.
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That's exactly what I was trying to get across, although I may have obfuscated my point a bit by being sardonic. I'm 100% for staying out of the way until you're ready to blast off in order to promote efficiency for the entire aviation system.

By the way, dude, your avatars crack me up.
 
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