Rumot mill running fast: New ASA mins come Jan 08

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surreal1221

surreal1221

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Word from an ASA pilot recruiter is an expected Minimum drop to 250/25 come January 08.

Good for some. . .Bad for others.

Take your pick, chew on it, and sit back and see if it really happens or not.
 
Geez, even with the new contract?? I figured that the slight pay raise might help a little with the need for pilots. I guess they still need them.
 
surreal1221 said:
Word from an ASA pilot recruiter is an expected Minimum drop to 250/25 come January 08.

Good for some. . .Bad for others.

Take your pick, chew on it, and sit back and see if it really happens or not.
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It's a continuation of the suck, although if their TA becomes their contract I can't imagine they'd have to lower mins that much.

Although this did inspire me to go look at ASA's hiring page and they have next to their minimum time an interesting asterisked note that says:

"* Hours acquired in banner towing, traffic watch or aerial photography are not the best way to build flight time."

I guess a better way to "build time" (and one that happens to lower their mins to 300/25) is to pay for a sweet-ass RJ course from places like ATP or (I'm not making this up) "Ebry-Riddle".

If we want to talk about "lowering the bar" in the industry or "racing to the bottom", lowering qualifications is the first place we should look.
 
zmiller4 said:
I guess a better way to "build time" (and one that happens to lower their mins to 300/25) is to pay for a sweet-ass RJ course from places like ATP or (I'm not making this up) "Ebry-Riddle".
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Gotta love those RJ courses. What a complete waste of money. Oh well, like it or not, it seems as if those things are quickly becoming the new "multi" unfortunately.
 
Maybe everyone out there is a much better pilot than me, but at 250 hours I was just learning how to fly a complex aircraft like an Arrow, not a RJ.

At 50 hours of multi, I was so happy that I kissed the ground when I landed in EYW in the Seneca, making it there without killing myself, much less paying passengers in the back.
 
And allow me to go on the record.

I personally am very saddened by this latest rumor. It is a very bad sign, personally, and professionally.
 
Cjordan said:
What's an RJ course? Is it a Pay For Job, or is it just training only?
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An RJ course is kind of a JC term for courses offered by academies that closely mimic IOE(Initial Operating Experience...qualification training when you get hired at an airline).

A popular "RJ" course right now is offered by ATP. You can go visit their website and see what it entails.

The topic of RJ(Regional Jet) courses is one of those "controversial" things here at JC. Alot of the "old hats", and others who have made it, say they are worthless because it is nothing but redundancy in training. Yet, for some reason, airlines seem to be more and more apt to allow an applicant in with lower than published minimum hour requirements if they have attended an approved course.

From talking to an airline, it seems that they have a very low IOE failure rate from new hires who have attended an "RJ" course. So in a way it is insurance for the airline and good risk management, or CYA if you will, for the HR person doing the hiring.
 
LoadMasterC141 said:
Yet, for some reason, airlines seem to be more and more apt to allow an applicant in with lower than published minimum hour requirements if they have attended an approved course.
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The reason that airlines like them so much is because they do in fact increase a person's odds of making it through ground school and maybe even sim. That's great for the airline. However, they don't help at all once you get on the line. The flip side of that is that they are hiring people at lower time because of the RJ courses, so they know even LESS then they would once they get out on line because of their lower time hence, you might say a side effect of the RJ course is that a person sucks MORE then they would if they hadn't taken it and gotten hired with more real experience. However, that's not the airline's problem, it's the Captain's problem. And because most captains are pretty good, and the RJ can in theory be flown single pilot (we've all done it at one time or another FO or CA), planes aren't plummeting out of the sky.... yet.
 
And - know that even some schools are marketing an RJ'esque course which just details the systems of your usual regional jet.

I'll keep my opinion on that to myself, and allow you guys to decide if that's on the same level as a real deal RJ course.
 
zmiller4 said:
"* Hours acquired in banner towing, traffic watch or aerial photography are not the best way to build flight time."
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What the heck? This is a great way to build flight time. How else are you supposed to do it at low time besides flight instructing?
 
JaceTheAce said:
What the heck? This is a great way to build flight time. How else are you supposed to do it at low time besides flight instructing?
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I think that's the point. . .

Either pay up at one of the schools we refer you to for an RJ course, or instruct.

I think that's what they are trying to say, rightfully or wrongfully. An individual choice.
 
Seggy said:
Maybe everyone out there is a much better pilot than me, but at 250 hours I was just learning how to fly a complex aircraft like an Arrow, not a RJ.

At 50 hours of multi, I was so happy that I kissed the ground when I landed in EYW in the Seneca, making it there without killing myself, much less paying passengers in the back.
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You are 100% right...I just totaled my times yesterday and I am 362 over 74 (63 of which are in the BE200). That said, I am getting very comfortable flying the King Air, however, I am still doing A LOT of on the job training. In an airplane like a king air, on the job training isn't soooo bad because the thing flies like a cessna on steroids + another engine...however, I just dont see how you could ever justify doing some serious on the job training while you have 50 people behind you.

Let me put it this way...With the way commercial aviation is today, its not very hard to do your job right when everything is running smoothly....."Go Direct STANE", "Altitude Set/Selected", "DH is 350"...Obviously there is a lot more than that, but you get the idea and the point in trying to make...

When things are going right, its not very difficult...I would like to think that these 300 hour wonders could be an effective member of the crew when things are going right, but you always hear horror stories on JC about CA's having to teach FO's how to fly instruments, or to reset altimeter through fl180 etc....But lets just say that most can be an effective crew member at 300 hours when things are going well....fine....I can accept that, but I CANNOT accept that they will be effective during an emergency. And who gives a crap how nice of a job when things are okay...You think the Captain couldn't have done all of those tasks on his own if he really had too? Now thats its emergenecy time, and he needs you, I just cant see a low time guy (or gal) being able to help that much, and thats what it comes down to for me.
 
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