Rode on an E170 For the First Time

While I flew the jets as a CA, and sat through the entire CBA being negotiated at RAH and my buddy was a negotiator on the contract, I wasn't thrilled about the FO rates.

I still voted yes on it based on the Scope to protect my job.

However, it's a fight you can't win.

The negotiating team decided setting rates was the best course.

If they didn't, then they'd go under the clause that you fly the jets under the existing 50 seat rate until the matter was settled by an arbitrator (like that works out well).

Either way, the peanut gallery would have bitched and moaned, so you lose.

And, as I say time and time again, yet to deaf ears, the scope that bound the holding company was expensive and cost alot of leverage.

If the scope was never loosened, no planes, turboprop or jet, would be at a sub-carrier. Sorry end of story. How to rectify that failure due to ego in the 70s is a fun debate to watch. From the sidelines of 2nd tier freight.
 
BobDDuck said:
I've heard just about every euphemism (I think that's the right word) for the program, but that might just be the best yet.
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UAL had one too, but they were much more civilized. Come in at the bottom of the list and they get 2nd year pay. UAL paid the difference in the rate between 1st and 2nd year.

I think if US would have done the same, it would have been embraced in a different manner than a grab of some Captain chairs from a group of already grossly underpaid pilots.
 
C150J said:
$37 an hour is TOP FO pay on that airframe. I hope you guys can negotiate much higher and wish you luck. I'm not trying to knock RP at all - I just wish you guys could raise the bar for your pilot group.
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The CA rates are actually pretty decent at Republic and could probably just take a COLA adjustment, but the FO rates need a lot of work. I rode up front on an E170 last week on Shuttle America, and the Captain said he was making about $108/hr. That's not bad for a 70-seat jet. COLA would probably bring that up to $118/hr or so, and that's pretty close to what you can hope for right now on that airframe until the mainline carriers start jacking up the 737 and Airbus rates. The FO, on the other hand, was making about $30/hr. That's pathetic. FO rates should be pegged at between 60-70% of Captain's pay. According to APC, an E170 CA on year 3 pay makes $66/hr. COLA would put that at about $70/hr. Using a 60% FO rate, that would make the FO rate $42/hr. That's higher than the current 20-year FO rate. That FO scale needs some big adjustments.
 
Polar742 said:
If the scope was never loosened, no planes, turboprop or jet, would be at a sub-carrier. Sorry end of story. How to rectify that failure due to ego in the 70s is a fun debate to watch. From the sidelines of 2nd tier freight.
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If it was "lost" due to ego and now it's a losing battle due to ego, it's probably not going to end well. Somebody will lose. I love it when people refer to scope as having been lost. It is about as lost as the people on "Lost".
 
EDUC8-or said:
Bag Tied in The Middle Airlines...
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Good catch! Yes, Chautauqua means "bag tied in the middle" and, if you happen to fly over upstate New York, you will see that Lake Chautauqua does indeed look like a bag, tied in the middle.

Of course, as pilots on the mighty Jetstream making less than $20,000 a year, we figured it was Native American for "low pay".
 
falconvalley said:
If it was "lost" due to ego and now it's a losing battle due to ego, it's probably not going to end well. Somebody will lose. I love it when people refer to scope as having been lost. It is about as lost as the people on "Lost".
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I'd explain it to you specifically, but I have explained it so many times before.

Myself and anyone who was at a commuter in the late 90s until today through the RJ explosion would give the same story.

Everytime a mainline contract came out (good times or bad) we got more jets.
 
PCL_128 said:
Semantics. We don't have a 12-year FO rate either, because the pay increases stop at year 8 for FOs, but I still say that the 12-year FO rate is $79/hr (same as the 8-year rate).
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It's so easy.....I don't even know why I do it. :laff::laff::laff:
 
That really seems a silly thing to argue about, doesn't it? A 12 year payrate is the same as an 8 year payrate because 8 year is top of scale? Ridiculous. Top of scale is top of scale. If its not 60%-70% of captain pay corrected for longevity, it's too low. Period.
 
I got a ride once from an S5 E170 from ORD-SDF. Loved it. Much more comfy and roomy than the CRJs while retaining 2-2 seating so you don't get stuck in the middle of two big sweaty men for an hour. The only part I didn't like was when we got into SDF they didn't use the jetway, they connect a spiral-type stairway to the aircraft, and mind you this was during that huge ice storm and it was like walking on glass. All the other airlines get jetways at SDF.
 
ZapBrannigan said:
That really seems a silly thing to argue about, doesn't it? A 12 year payrate is the same as an 8 year payrate because 8 year is top of scale? Ridiculous. Top of scale is top of scale. If its not 60%-70% of captain pay corrected for longevity, it's too low. Period.
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This is true.
 
ZapBrannigan said:
Good catch! Yes, Chautauqua means "bag tied in the middle" and, if you happen to fly over upstate New York, you will see that Lake Chautauqua does indeed look like a bag, tied in the middle.
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I rode the jumpseat on mainline up to Buffalo and the FO told me about it, the lake definitely looks like a bag tied in the middle.
 
I love the E170/5. They are great aircraft, every time I had ridden on them I've been impressed....

I know I won't be popular for saying this, but I'd like to fly of RAH down the road.

Sidenote: I've just booked a flight CMH-ATL-CMH on a Shuttle America 175s both ways.

RD
 
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