RJ course or 100 hours?

TheOneMarine said:
So I got the call today from ASA, was told they want me and will offer me an interview but I need either 90 more hours (to reach 500TT) or a RJ transition course. I'm instructing in NE Ohio, the weather is getting crappy and the hours (and my pay) are diminishing. Ideas, thoughts, help.
Please don't make this into a "let me preach my philosophy" thread. Keep that in the Lav. Thanks:nana2:
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Hey One, glad to see things worked out for you. American Eagle is hiring, have you tried them? May be a good place to start, plus ORD isn't too far from where your at.
Has far as RJ or 100 more, IMHO, both have benefits, I would be more inclined for the experience, but if you never seen glass or flew it, might be a handful. I think UND (University of North Dakota) offers a CRJ sim course for around 3000.00 +, and if you have the feds help you out,(Financial Aid plus they can tailor the course to fit your scedule)
may be worth it.

However, someone posted on these threads that ASA mins may drop come January, may have to just wait and see.
 
jtrain609 said:
121 ground school is not as bad as people make it out to be. The problem is not the complexity of the stuff you're dealing with, but instead the gauge of material you're required to shove down your throat. The material itself is easy, to be real honest with you, but the amount of it that they throw at you is the challanging part. If you think that the actual material is hard, well...

If you have a graduate degree...heck, if you have an undergraduate degree 121 ground won't be any big deal to you. If you're a hack on the other hand, it might be a handful.
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:yeahthat: This is exactly what my groundschool instructor said: "This isnt rocket science guys, Im the benchmark if i can make it anybody can":)
 
Murdoughnut said:
I was mostly joking with that - but I think guys on here are down on RJ courses simply because they associate them with PFJ. If that's PFJ, then any hour you fly for time building purposes above your CPL is PFJ too. It's still time building, just in a more structured/aircraft specific environment. I don't see what the big deal is. You guys bitch when a low time pilot makes the line and doesn't know what the fudge he's doing - now you bitch about a program designed to make them a better FO, and you bitch about that too. I just don't get it.
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I don't see RJ courses as PFJ. I see them as an unnecessary expense that is raising the training costs to get a $18K a year job. Come on people. The RJ course costs a THIRD of what you're going to make as a first year FO at most regionals. That doesn't sit well with me.

In addition, those that feel they NEED an RJ course in order to make it through initial training at an airline need to re-evaluate if they're ready for the leap.
 
kellwolf said:
I don't see RJ courses as PFJ. I see them as an unnecessary expense that is raising the training costs to get a $18K a year job. Come on people. The RJ course costs a THIRD of what you're going to make as a first year FO at most regionals. That doesn't sit well with me.

In addition, those that feel they NEED an RJ course in order to make it through initial training at an airline need to re-evaluate if they're ready for the leap.
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My point was that if it's an option between paying for your CFI, and paying for an RJ course, one might consider the RJ course over the CFI. I agree, no sense paying for it if you're already building hours as a CFI.
 
Murdoughnut said:
My point was that if it's an option between paying for your CFI, and paying for an RJ course, one might consider the RJ course over the CFI. I agree, no sense paying for it if you're already building hours as a CFI.
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Eh, I disagree with that. The RJ course makes it to where management at an airline feels more comfortable hiring you b/c you'll make it through training. The CFI makes you a better pilot. I know which way I went, and I'd do it again in a heartbeat. Well, I'll be instructing again in a few months when those guys that took the RJ course to get on with 250 hours are my FOs and I have to teach them how to read an approach plate. Seriously, you should hear some of the stories my CAs tell me about these "RJ course" guys.
 
kellwolf said:
Eh, I disagree with that. The RJ course makes it to where management at an airline feels more comfortable hiring you b/c you'll make it through training. The CFI makes you a better pilot. I know which way I went, and I'd do it again in a heartbeat. Well, I'll be instructing again in a few months when those guys that took the RJ course to get on with 250 hours are my FOs and I have to teach them how to read an approach plate. Seriously, you should hear some of the stories my CAs tell me about these "RJ course" guys.
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Bingo.

Again, think about your wife being on that flight when they didn't instruct and build real world experience and instead took the RJ course to get the job. If you flinch, it's probably a bad idea.
 
I always think it's funny how all the CFI's on JetCareers bash CRJ courses... Perhaps it's a bit of envy? 6-8 weeks of CFI training, plus working months and months in 172's teaching stalls, when other people are taking 2 week CRJ courses and getting hired immediately...

A CRJ course is usually the best way to get into a regional airline, like it or not. It might not be ideal, and it might suck for people who had to get 1500 hours a few years ago, but it's the reality today.

I also object to the notion that these kind of training programs create bad pilots. Most other countries have the exact same types of programs, (often at a much higher cost than we pay in the US) and there aren't planes flying out of the sky. In fact, they are usually going right into an Airbus or Boeing.
 
av8sean said:
A CRJ course is usually the best way to get into a regional airline, like it or not. It might not be ideal, and it might suck for people who had to get 1500 hours a few years ago, but it's the reality today.
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It might be the current reality, but it doesn't make it right.

I also object to the notion that these kind of training programs create bad pilots. Most other countries have the exact same types of programs, (often at a much higher cost than we pay in the US) and there aren't planes flying out of the sky. In fact, they are usually going right into an Airbus or Boeing.
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I am in the camp that these courses do not make bad pilots, but those pilots who rely on them with low hours use it as a crutch to get into the regionals. If I had my choice I would want a new FO sitting next to me with some REAL experience vs. a wet CPL and an RJ course.

I believe there is value in a well put together CRM/LOFT course, but marketing it under the guise of sneaking into the right seat for big bucks is just plain wrong. Like I said before, CRM/LOFT training early is very important, but not for $6,000 in a sim you have no idea how to fly.

Plus, your argument about Europe doesn't quite work. Those young guys going straight into the wide bodies are not flying 6 leg days. They are cruise relief pilots in training for multiple years.
 
DE727UPS said:
"Because of the washout rates everyone is noting, including recruiters I met at JC, I personally want to do an RJ course."

Perhaps we are getting somewhere with the low time argument, now. If washout rates are high with "low timers", then perhaps we should raise the bar with experience levels rather than introduce a crutch into the system which doesn't produce a better pilot but simply helps them get through 121 initial....
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That is a really good point Don. I had not really thought of it that way I guess.
 
I hate on RJ courses b/c it's a waste of thousands of dollars. Seriously, let's think about this. Does the person taking the class NEED it? If so, they don't belong in an 121 ground school. Sorry, but that's the fact. If you need to take the class twice, you're not ready for an airline. RJ courses are there for two reasons: to generate $$$ for the school and to give airline HR depts better pass rates. They do very, very little in the way of improving piloting skills and even less when it comes to decision making skills.

Bitter? No. I had the chance to do MAPD, the original RJ course. I decided to go the CFI route and don't regret it one bit.

Another aspect of the European ab inito programs being left out is screening. They just don't take anyone with a co-signer and a social.
 
av8sean said:
I always think it's funny how all the CFI's on JetCareers bash CRJ courses... Perhaps it's a bit of envy? 6-8 weeks of CFI training, plus working months and months in 172's teaching stalls, when other people are taking 2 week CRJ courses and getting hired immediately...

A CRJ course is usually the best way to get into a regional airline, like it or not. It might not be ideal, and it might suck for people who had to get 1500 hours a few years ago, but it's the reality today.

I also object to the notion that these kind of training programs create bad pilots. Most other countries have the exact same types of programs, (often at a much higher cost than we pay in the US) and there aren't planes flying out of the sky. In fact, they are usually going right into an Airbus or Boeing.
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I love how the only people that bash flight instructor certificates are the kids that couldn't hack getting a flight instructor certificate. That ride was easily harder than any of my part 135 or 121 check rides.

And other countries don't have anything CLOSE to the same kind of programs. Are they putting low time pilots in complex aircraft? Yes, but the selection process, maturation process and training syllabus is NOTHING like a freaking one week RJ course.
 
jtrain609 said:
And other countries don't have anything CLOSE to the same kind of programs. Are they putting low time pilots in complex aircraft? Yes, but the selection process, maturation process and training syllabus is NOTHING like a freaking one week RJ course.
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:yeahthat: You should hear about what the Indians have to go through back home after they get their ratings here to get in the right seat. Thank goodness Im in the USA.
 
jtrain609 said:
I love how the only people that bash flight instructor certificates are the kids that couldn't hack getting a flight instructor certificate.
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My favorite quote ever is hearing someone say they didn't want to become a flight instructor because it would make them "rusty".
 
Clocks said:
My favorite quote ever is hearing someone say they didn't want to become a flight instructor because it would make them "rusty".
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Whoever said that is a complete tool.

If somebody doesn't think flight instructing will help them when they get to an airline cockpit they're fools. I spend half of my trips monitoring what the other guy is doing, and my time spent instructing taught me how to do that effectively while maintaining a good view of the big picture and tactfully commenting when I see something going wrong.

I.E. You don't say to the guy next to you, "Hey jackass jones, you gonna put the flaps down yet? You know below 180 you're supposed to have flaps 9 right? How did you pass upgrade!? I can't wait until they put me in your seat. GOD!"

Well I mean I guess you could say that if you were a true • bag...
 
jtrain609 said:
Well I mean I guess you could say that if you were a true • bag...
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Wait till you get more time in the plane and get more comfortable. You'll start biting your tongue so hard it bleeds. It's not the big things that annoy me anymore, it's little things, which is just sad. We're talking pins and needles annoying when the other guy doesn't switch to VS mode when the VSI is warbling b/w 1000 and 400 fpm.
 
FatBastard said:
Hey One, glad to see things worked out for you. American Eagle is hiring, have you tried them? May be a good place to start, plus ORD isn't too far from where your at.
Has far as RJ or 100 more, IMHO, both have benefits, I would be more inclined for the experience, but if you never seen glass or flew it, might be a handful. I think UND (University of North Dakota) offers a CRJ sim course for around 3000.00 +, and if you have the feds help you out,(Financial Aid plus they can tailor the course to fit your scedule)
may be worth it.

However, someone posted on these threads that ASA mins may drop come January, may have to just wait and see.
Click to expand...

Hey bro, long time no see. How are things for you? Still at Skyway? I tried Eagle but got the "Thanks, but no thanks" e-mail. Oh well. Flight instructing is great when you're in the plane. I've learned more from others mistakes than I could have ever learned otherwise. I just hate the office B.S. that goes on where I'm at. Few more hours and I can move on though I hope. Get back at me and let me know whats up!
 
"I always think it's funny how all the CFI's on JetCareers bash CRJ courses... "

Not just CFI's. Senior 757/767 Capts, too...

(I say I'm senior cause on the last bid I made the far left column on the list of ONT Capts....sweeeeeet)
 
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