RJ course or 100 hours?
- Thread starter TheOneMarine
- Start date
Murdoughnut
Well sized member
Pan Am Academy has a regional jet program that's something like $3k or $4k, can't remember. Comparable to getting your CFI, though.
Murdoughnut
Well sized member
I don't think it's a matter of people needing it - check this ...
Say I have a MCPL with 250 hours total time. A regional airline tells me that I really need an extra 100 hours to interview, but in lieu of that, I can take an RJ course and be invited for an interview. So I've got three options
One: Get my CFI (around $3k plus a couple months of training) and do that for a few months to get the extra 100 hours
Two: Pay for the extra 100 hours at a cost of $7,500-$10,000
Three: Take the RJ course ($4k), be done with it in two weeks, and increase my likelihood that I'll successfully finish that airline's training program.
To each his own, I wouldn't say any option is better than the others, but it's all up to the person. For me, if my goal was to make it to a regional, I'd take the RJ course. Not because I need to, but because it gets me to my goal quicker (without having to PFJ)
From a business standpoint, I would imagine that those with an RJ course have a higher success rate in initial training than those without (assuming roughly similar flight experience). It makes sense then that an airline would look highly upon this - it's a simple cost/probability function. My point is, if that's what an airline wants to see, then why not?
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
Or your give the Pan Am CP his ATP training and in exchange for a 6 pack of nice beer he sets you up in the FTD with one of his instructors for 2 hours of crash course (hehe) glass cockpit flying so at least you have some idea what you are going to see in the future. But other then that? Eh... No thanks. I'd rather tool around in my Cessna/Seminole and get experience (and probably more importantly confidence) while teaching others.
(By the way, this isn't a slam on Bike at all. Just playing Devil's Advocate.)
I learned CRM and multi crew stuff through out my training from pretty much day one. Even beyond the ATP stuff they had us doing. Same thing with standard call outs. From day one of my PPL my CFI had me making standard call outs.
Real weather flying? In a sim? I don't think so. Go instruct somewhere where thunderstorms can pop up or where it's always foggy or where you have ice and you will see 10x more weather then a sim can throw at you. And the best part? It's real. If you make a bad decision, you die.
And emergencies? Sure, I never saw a V1 cut before I got in the sim here, but I sure as hell had my student kill the right after I had already failed the left. I had a student stamp on the wrong rudder at 300 feet climbing out simulated single engine. I had an engine explode (for real) turning cross wind. I had smoke in the cockpit once too. I think I'll take me "real life" emergency stuff over sim based ones any day thank you very much.
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
Sorry for the double post people.
This is the problem right here. You're right. It's great for you. It's great for the airline. The only person it sucks for is the captain you have to fly with when you divert for the first time or some other nonstandard procedure comes up.
All that said, it's up to each person. There really aren't many who can say they didn't jump at their first chance to get on flying the big planes, but there are many people who want to make sure they at least have some of the experience they will need when they get out on the line.
granlistillo
Well-Known Member
In your situation, i would not do a rj course on an interview "offer", nor would I buy 90 hrs for a chance to interview.
I know some guys have been tendered a conditional job offer pending a rj course completion. That may be worthwhile. Some guys swear by them.
I would continue to instruct and if you want hours in the winter, then head to florida.
Go for the CFI ticket. In the long run, it will pay off. The experience of flying with a student is very valuable. Nothing improves your understanding like having to teach. Once you can explain a maneuver to a newbie so that they can understand it, you will truly have a grasp on that maneuver. Learning about aviation is a life long process and I believe that instructing is the best education you can give yourself.
Besides, flying small planes is more fun than the 121 world. Enjoy it while you can!
Besides, flying small planes is more fun than the 121 world. Enjoy it while you can!
SoCalAprch
Well-Known Member
Keep flyin, nothing beats real world experience. I took an RJ course because it was offered for free still instructed and have more time than alot of guys in my Republic class. There is a guy in here that Soloed in April... Crazy 
anic:
anic:OldTownPilot
Well-Known Member
Solo in April, class in november?????
Jesus. I soloed in March, Where is my JungleBus damn it!!
And to think his first winter will be with 70 blissfully ignorant people in the back.
Jesus. I soloed in March, Where is my JungleBus damn it!!
And to think his first winter will be with 70 blissfully ignorant people in the back.
MFT1Air
Mfalme Soleimani
Take the RJ course - it will increase your odds of making it through training successfully. It's not a PFJ type of deal, they just want you to have more hours: either X hours of actual flight time, or Y hours of RJ training.
Plus flying the RJ simulator is safer.
Not knowing the specifics of the interview/selection process, I thought about that as well - successful completion of an RJ course better preparing you for the sim one is expected to fly. Does that training make the likelihood of passing your sim session more successful?
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
I think you may be looking at this from the perspective of it being the equliviant of some graduate credits, or possibly a professional certification, but it's not. It's really nothing more than snake oil. Or am I reading you wrong?
Further, if you want to approach this from a Machiavellian standpoint your argument may have some merit, but it concerns me we're not talking about the educational aspects involved here. The RJ course will most likely advance your skills and experience a net total of zero, where an extra 100 hours ESPECIALLY when you're low time is a HUGE impact. It's hard to see that when you're sitting there at 250 hours, but those first few hundred hours of dual given necessitate one of the steepest learning curves in your aviation career.
So do we want about making good pilots, or do we want to talk about minimum standards for the guys up front when your wife is riding in back?
And I've got some helpful hints for how to ace training:
-Listen
-Pay attention
-Don't be a •
-Don't mouth off
-Don't suck
-When you DO suck, correct your mistakes and most importantly...
-Have a good attitude
If you do all that, I can assure you that you'll make it through school. Now you didn't need to pay somebody $4,000 to prep you to do all that, it's the same way you got through graduate school.
Crockrocket94
Well-Known Member
I wouldnt trade my experience (although small and growing) instructing for anything. Not RJ time, or anything else.
Murdoughnut
Well sized member
You may be right, and I think your advice on handling training is spot on. I was just talking about the type of guy that isn't in an RJ course because he needs the extra training (like some kid taking developmental math to be able to do well in Algebra I), but rather wants to have as much knowledge coming into his training as possible.
I enjoy putting around in my 172 as much as the next guy, but eventually you want more. That's why the RJ course sounds so good to someone like me - the opportunity to trade in piston flying for something new, and the opportunity to come better prepared to my 121 training. It's certainly doesn't seem like a short cut or anything like that. Rather, it reminds me of when I was in college - After my first semester, I grew tired of the entry level (100 level) courses and by the second term of my freshman year, I was taking senior level classes. I knew I had the work ethic and study skills to handle it, and it prevented burn out.
If what you say is true in the sense that you don't learn anything, then so be it - it's not worth it. But the guys I've heard speak of them have all had good things to say. Ultimately, it just seems like two different streets leading to the same place.
Murdoughnut
Well sized member
I'm sure it's a case by case basis - I feel confident of my study skills and academic work ethic. It's what got me through my Ph.D. coursework. If you're talking about someone who needs the RJ program because they wouldn't otherwise be able to succeed, then I think you're absolutely right. Of course we pilots are an arrogant bunch, and I doubt anyone is going to admit to being in the second group.
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
121 ground school is not as bad as people make it out to be. The problem is not the complexity of the stuff you're dealing with, but instead the gauge of material you're required to shove down your throat. The material itself is easy, to be real honest with you, but the amount of it that they throw at you is the challanging part. If you think that the actual material is hard, well...
If you have a graduate degree...heck, if you have an undergraduate degree 121 ground won't be any big deal to you. If you're a hack on the other hand, it might be a handful.
If you have a graduate degree...heck, if you have an undergraduate degree 121 ground won't be any big deal to you. If you're a hack on the other hand, it might be a handful.
ZWflyer
Well-Known Member
That pretty much nails it right there. The idea of a 121 ground school being this incredibly difficult thing is somewhat of a myth. The material isn't hard at all, but it comes at you in a hurry. Dedicate yourself to studying and you will have no real issues.
bike21
9-5 Ruins Lives
No worries
Most excellent. Unfortunately some folks don't get that during their training.
Agreed. However, my point wasn't 'real' weather flying it was 'really bad wx flying'. Stuff that you can't duplicate safely in the real world and make the students do diversions and decision making. Basically choosing between several bad options.
Yep, you had some great (crazy) experiences. Problem is some folks never see so much as a bald spotted tire during training. Similar to the wx flying in the sim, you can do multiple emergencies and really bad scenario training in the sim safely.
Again, I am not advocating these expensive RJ courses. Just advocating some safe and productive CRM/LOFT training in a cheap FTD with someone who knows what they are doing.
Amen.