Return of the Bronco

Lawman said:
It wouldn't surprise me. The list of things the Air Force wants T-X to do is just far and above that jet. My money is on TA-50. Even though the general consensus on that jet is its a lot of extra stuff and extra dollars you don't need in a trainer... Like that ever stopped us in a procurement program before.
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The issue is, the T-38 doesn't just do basic undergraduate training; it also has to be capable of fighter lead-in training for guys who will go fly Raptor and Lightning. There is a giant technology gap between what the AT-38C can do and what a young pup starting in the Raptor or Lightning needs (hence the use of the F-16 as a lead-in for guys going to the Raptor.

So, the T-50 has lots of extra bells and whistles that aren't needed for basic UPT, but are essential to make it a useful IFF platform.
 
Lawman said:
... that jet is its a lot of extra stuff and extra dollars you don't need in a trainer... Like that ever stopped us in a procurement program before.
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No kidding. When I saw the requirements for a cup holder and a baggage area for golf clubs, I spewed coffee all over the table. Then I remembered that the Air Force had a hand in writing it.
 
So we want OV-10s to be going up against same medium-heavy caliber AAA....if in fact that was what it was. Though ISIS does have those guns from Syrian stocks
 
MikeD said:
So we want OV-10s to be going up against same medium-heavy caliber AAA....if in fact that was what it was. Though ISIS does have those guns from Syrian stocks
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I've got a pictures of them with S-60s mounted on flatbed construction trucks.

I've been telling my guys this isn't gonna be Afghanistan, this just reinforces that better than me walking around with a sandwich board saying "the end is near" ever could.


Ah found it...
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1458447565.952336.jpg


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Lawman said:
I've got a picture somewhere of them with S-60s mounted on flatbed construction trucks.

I've been telling my guys this isn't gonna be Afghanistan, this just reinforces that better than me walking around with a sandwich board saying "the end is near" ever could.
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Afghanistan has spoiled us, which is something the rabid pro-A-10 fanboys can't understand when it comes to dealing with anything other than a mostly uncontested environment such as that......basically small arms/automatic weapons 12.7 and below, with the ability to mostly operate with impunity above. No EW threats, no air threats, no medium and up AAA, or really any SAMs to speak of. That's been ops standard for over a decade and a half now, as you well know.

Hell, we have enough trouble sometimes keeping from just destroying our own equipment, like the 1/285 of the AZ ArNG did on their last long deployment when they Class A'd two of their birds in WX on the same day. And hopefully combat-wise, we haven't forgotten the lessons of situations like the Battle of Karbala, just substituting ISIS for the Republican Guard.
 
MikeD said:
Afghanistan has spoiled us, which is something the rabid pro-A-10 fanboys can't understand when it comes to dealing with anything other than a mostly uncontested environment such as that......basically small arms/automatic weapons 12.7 and below, with the ability to mostly operate with impunity above. No EW threats, no air threats, no medium and up AAA, or really any SAMs to speak of. That's been ops standard for over a decade and a half now, as you well know.

Hell, we have enough trouble sometimes keeping from just destroying our own equipment, like the 1/285 of the AZ ArNG did on their last long deployment when they Class A'd two of their birds in WX on the same day. And hopefully combat-wise, we haven't forgotten the lessons of situations like the Battle of Karbala, just substituting ISIS for the Republican Guard.
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Oh we totally have.

Try and fire up a classified briefing or do direct action training and the response is always the same, "that's not what we are doing in Afghanistan."

Comes down to everybody has gotten comfortable being lazy. And the people in the office that decide what is important to progress to Pilot in Command or Air Mission Commander place no emphasis on correcting it.

We have raised a generation of people who are now in charge that never trained to do the DA fight. Now they want to dismiss the training as simply a box to check because we aren't gonna do that ever again. And guys like me get dismissed as being crazy. I wonder if this is what Boyd felt like.


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Lawman said:
Oh we totally have.

Try and fire up a classified briefing or do direct action training and the response is always the same, "that's not what we are doing in Afghanistan."

Comes down to everybody has gotten comfortable being lazy. And the people in the office that decide what is important to progress to Pilot in Command or Air Mission Commander place no emphasis on correcting it.

We have raised a generation of people who are now in charge that never trained to do the DA fight. Now they want to dismiss the training as simply a box to check because we aren't gonna do that ever again. And guys like me get dismissed as being crazy. I wonder if this is what Boyd felt like.
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We're going to be in for a rude awakening, possibly sooner rather than later. The above, combined with a younger and lesser experienced force, doesn't bode well for us learning a hard lesson or two.
 
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