Restricted ATP ( R-ATP ) For Military

JPilot9

JPilot9

Well-Known Member
Military-rated pilots with at least 750 hours of total time as a pilot qualify for a restricted ATP. I understand that the 750 hours can be a total of civilian and military time. Has anyone been in this specific situation for the ATP check ride? Less than 750 hours of military time, but over 750 with civilian time going for the R-ATP check...

Did you get any extra scrutiny from the DPE? Any weirdness that guys should expect? I'm thinking there are more than a few guard bums in this boat.

Thanks for any input.
 
I have an additional question. According to 14 CFR 61.159 I am allowed to log 500 hours of my military FE time. Where do I account for those hours in my logbook and how do I prove them to the FAA.
 
I was in that exact situation when I first went to work for ExpressJet. I had ~850 hours between my time as a flight instructor and my UPT/C-130 FTU time. Airlines don't have DPEs, they have check airmen that do the checkride and issue licensure. The reg is pretty black and white.
 
Soku said it about the airlines. They are Check airmen that do the testing, not a DPE. I have 500fw and 300rw military when I did mine. It's all about the number 750 to them regardless how you get there. I asked if you were going to the airlines because it's the route I know about and how they handled it there.

Some airlines may have a requirement to have X amount of Fixed wing if you are a rotor guy, but if you get that the rest doesn't matter.
 
In the airline world, typically your new certificate (ATP) or type rating will be issued by an APD (Aircrew Program Designee), not just a normal Check Airman.
 
ctab5060X said:
In the airline world, typically your new certificate (ATP) or type rating will be issued by an APD (Aircrew Program Designee), not just a normal Check Airman.
Click to expand...

Whatever they call the guy that runs the box during your checkride (non AQP) or during your validation (AQP). Point is, it's a guy on the airlines payroll. Or if you are as lucky as I was at 2 am in the sims down at Houston Hobby, it's that guy and a fed watching him give the checkride.
 
The restricted ATP certificate simply "restricts" how many hours you must have as a pilot from 1,500 total to either 750 for military trained pilots, 1,000 for students who graduated with a 4 year aviation degree or 1,200 hours for students who graduated with a two year aviation degree. It also "restricts" some of the flight privileges of that of a regular ATP, such as being a captain for a 121 operation until the "restriction" is lifted.
 
I have quite a bit of civilian hours and military hours. From what I am getting is the ATP guys have pretty much treated everyone the same. It seems like the oral focuses mostly on the airplane systems and IFR regs. If you go to quick ATP places such as Downtown Aviation and Action Multi, they pretty much treat everyone the same and give you oral guides.
 
So I'm just curious for those who have done the civilian hiring process and have better vis....

What kind of mixed Helo/Fixed Wing hour level would be competitive for a fixed wing job. What I mean is I'm stacked with Rotary wing hours and PIC time. All my fixed wing time just came from private SEL time before I joined the Army.

I'm curious how much more personal investment a person in my position need to put into fixed wing to be competitive walking in with 1500-2000 hours and the lions share of it is Rotary.
 
gulfstreampiper said:
I have quite a bit of civilian hours and military hours. From what I am getting is the ATP guys have pretty much treated everyone the same. It seems like the oral focuses mostly on the airplane systems and IFR regs. If you go to quick ATP places such as Downtown Aviation and Action Multi, they pretty much treat everyone the same and give you oral guides.
Click to expand...

We are talking about ATP the FAA certificate, not ATP the flight school. As far as regional airline orals go, all airlines and check airmen have their "things" they want to hear in an oral. There should be gouge floating around the company on each of them.

Lawman said:
So I'm just curious for those who have done the civilian hiring process and have better vis....

What kind of mixed Helo/Fixed Wing hour level would be competitive for a fixed wing job. What I mean is I'm stacked with Rotary wing hours and PIC time. All my fixed wing time just came from private SEL time before I joined the Army.

I'm curious how much more personal investment a person in my position need to put into fixed wing to be competitive walking in with 1500-2000 hours and the lions share of it is Rotary.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure how it works right now, but if you're military they're looking for roughly 750 and a pulse, I don't know how long that will last, but I would suspect awhile as long as congress doesn't relax the ATP requirements, and seeing as how congress can't get anything done right now....
 
Lawman said:
So I'm just curious for those who have done the civilian hiring process and have better vis....

What kind of mixed Helo/Fixed Wing hour level would be competitive for a fixed wing job. What I mean is I'm stacked with Rotary wing hours and PIC time. All my fixed wing time just came from private SEL time before I joined the Army.

I'm curious how much more personal investment a person in my position need to put into fixed wing to be competitive walking in with 1500-2000 hours and the lions share of it is Rotary.
Click to expand...

I'll have to go look at what I wrote down in my notes from Vets In Blue, but jetBlue was somewhat proud that they were one of the few who counted (and liked) military rotary wing time in their applicants. I can't remember a number off the top of my head, though.
 
Lawman said:
So I'm just curious for those who have done the civilian hiring process and have better vis....

What kind of mixed Helo/Fixed Wing hour level would be competitive for a fixed wing job. What I mean is I'm stacked with Rotary wing hours and PIC time. All my fixed wing time just came from private SEL time before I joined the Army.

I'm curious how much more personal investment a person in my position need to put into fixed wing to be competitive walking in with 1500-2000 hours and the lions share of it is Rotary.
Click to expand...

Like Hacker said, I think JetBlue is one of the only majors that counts it. A number of regionals did/do count it or X % of it.

Don't want to stay rotary wing in the civil world? There are some lucrative gigs out there.
 
Mollymatz said:
The restricted ATP certificate simply "restricts" how many hours you must have as a pilot from 1,500 total to either 750 for military trained pilots, 1,000 for students who graduated with a 4 year aviation degree or 1,200 hours for students who graduated with a two year aviation degree. It also "restricts" some of the flight privileges of that of a regular ATP, such as being a captain for a 121 operation until the "restriction" is lifted.
Click to expand...

Personally, I'd say to people to just get the time for a normal ATP, then get the ATP then. No need to bother with restrictions or other stuff.
 
MikeD said:
Like Hacker said, I think JetBlue is one of the only majors that counts it. A number of regionals did/do count it or X % of it.

Don't want to stay rotary wing in the civil world? There are some lucrative gigs out there.
Click to expand...

I never understood why RW didn't count towards total time for the purposes of part 121. IMO it seems like every Army or Navy RW sortie has way more going on than what the average regional guy sees in a year. If guys can operate safely in that environment then I'm sure they'll be just fine flying an Airbus.
 
Last edited:
Soku39 said:
I never understood why RW didn't count towards total time. IMO it seems like every Army or Navy RW sortie has way more going on than what the average regional guy sees in a year. If guys can operate safely in that environment then I'm sure they'll be just fine flying an Airbus.
Click to expand...

Same reason Helo guys don't get to be CAG.

Rotor trash aren't real people.

I'm not getting out of the military any time soon. I'm just trying to see what my options picture looks like 3-5 years from now when I'm not close enough to retirement to stay in for whatever reason pushing me to leave (family, illness, Not GAF anymore, etc).


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