Rental Rate on M20S Eagle?

Blackhawk

Well-Known Member
Any ideas? It has an Aspen EFD 1000 Pro hooked to a Garmin 530W, STec autopilot, electric standby AI, standby HSI, 310 HP engine... just about every bell and whistle. Owner wants to put it out for rent and I can find very few Mooneys for rent on the internet to compare it with.
 
I know that you should know this, but, figure hourly fuel burn at max cruise, insurance cost per month figured into hourly blocks (figure very few hours rented per month), maint. cost per hour, etc. I don't think it would be very profitable to rent a plane like that with insurance and maint. costs. I'd figure about $300 to #350 per hour.

This is the closets thing I can find. And it's a club airplane.

http://www.wvfc.org/craft/98fl.html
 
I know that you should know this, but, figure hourly fuel burn at max cruise, insurance cost per month figured into hourly blocks (figure very few hours rented per month), maint. cost per hour, etc. I don't think it would be very profitable to rent a plane like that with insurance and maint. costs. I'd figure about $300 to #350 per hour.

This is the closets thing I can find. And it's a club airplane.

http://www.wvfc.org/craft/98fl.html

Yeah, we know that and have a spread sheet to figure in the costs but also need to consider what the market here will sustain- which is not much beyond cost. The link you list was the closest thing I could find as well, but it is in California which is a slightly different market. Also the airplane is paid for so one thought was to require renters to provide their own insurance. If the owner provided the insurance it would be very expensive for this airplane and would probably be dual only.
 
Yeah, we know that and have a spread sheet to figure in the costs but also need to consider what the market here will sustain- which is not much beyond cost. The link you list was the closest thing I could find as well, but it is in California which is a slightly different market. Also the airplane is paid for so one thought was to require renters to provide their own insurance. If the owner provided the insurance it would be very expensive for this airplane and would probably be dual only.


I figured you had already done the cost workout, but I figured I'd throw the link in incase you may have missed it. From what I have gathered, and I have been known to be wrong:crazy:, if you make the user supply their own insurance, you should be able to make it so a renter could go solo. What my place requires (182RG, not the same, but a good starting point), is either 250tt, 25 complex/high perf, or a 10 hour checkout. With a plane like that, and the hull value, I'd bet you could work out a deal with the insurence CO for something like 500tt, 150 complex/high perf. and a 15 hour checkout. But will the market support it. At that point, it's almost better to own anyways. It just seems like a lot of airplane to rent.
 
It just seems like a lot of airplane to rent.

Yeah, especially around here. There is a 182rg around here that can be rented. He will not be able to compete on a per hour basis, what we will need to see is if he can compete on a per trip basis since the trip times in his airplane would be quite a bit lower.
 
Yeah, especially around here. There is a 182rg around here that can be rented. He will not be able to compete on a per hour basis, what we will need to see is if he can compete on a per trip basis since the trip times in his airplane would be quite a bit lower.

You'll probably end up around the 400 - 450/ hour.
Just 3.1415927 x thumb tells me you are looking at minimum time checkout, minimum time renter, a load of prohibitations, fair amount of MX, Hangar and then you are not calculating it appropriately with 1/1000 of the purchase. That would make it around 700/ hour, but you can't very well do that. I haven't seen a single Mooney for rent ever since leaving GER, and the Germans had not half of the silly rules the insurance companies have come up with here...

Then the problem will be to find qualified instructors to check people out in it - I suppose Insurance Comp. may ask for Manufacturer Certified CFI?
I'd be very cautious, sounds like deep & dark waters to me.
But you know me pretty well - almost everything does... :D
 
I would expect insurance to be an issue. If the owner is able to find a company that is willing to write a commercial policy for a tricked out Eagle, I would expect the premium to be well in excess of $10k/yr.

Requiring renters to bring their own insurance could work. But I would expect the premium to be north $1k/yr if the renter is high time and has previous Mooney time. If they're low time with no Mooney experience, I would expect their premium to be north of $3k/yr if they can get it at all. So even if you rent the plane for $200/hr, it's still going to end up costing your renters significantly more than that.
 
I would expect insurance to be an issue. If the owner is able to find a company that is willing to write a commercial policy for a tricked out Eagle, I would expect the premium to be well in excess of $10k/yr.

Requiring renters to bring their own insurance could work. But I would expect the premium to be north $1k/yr if the renter is high time and has previous Mooney time. If they're low time with no Mooney experience, I would expect their premium to be north of $3k/yr if they can get it at all. So even if you rent the plane for $200/hr, it's still going to end up costing your renters significantly more than that.

Actually most renters insurance (non-owner) policies do not specify types. AVEMCO, for example, meerly limits you to a single engine, non-turbine airplane of less than 400 HP. No other restrictions. $75,000 hull would run about $750, $100,000 hull just south of $1000. While this would not cover replacing the airplane, it would cover most of the damage in a gear up landing or other such incidents.
Hanger is not really a problem as it is going to be kept at charter facility owned by the airplane owner.
 
So the owner is willing to require renters to bring their own insurance instead of insuring the plane himself. And he's willing to rent to them even though they lack enough coverage to replace the plane if they manage to total it. Does he sound like James Earl Jones when he speaks? Because if I had to guess, I'd say he's got testicles the size of grapefruits.
 
Our FBO used to have a Cirrus SR22G2 with all of the bells and whistles that was available to rent on leaseback. We priced it at $300/wet. It had really restrictive rental requirements due to insurance (basically our "cirrus" instructor had to accompany ever flight). Needless to say, it rarely flew and the owner/FBO lost a lot of $$$.

Rumor has it that an FBO somewhat near us (100nm away) has a Cessna 400 for rent in the $250-300 range because they couldn't sell it.
 
I know of 2 Mooney Bravo's that go for $99/hr dry + $40 month club membership.

"Garmin 530W (WAAS enabled) Nav/Com with Datalink Nexrad WX and Traffic and Terrain avoidance, XM Satellite radio, King digital IFR Package, KY97 COM, KNS89 RNAV, KX155 Nav/Com, KAP150 Auto pilot w. Altitude hold---fully coupled, HSI, KR87 ADF with coupled indicator, KMA24 audio panel, WX8 Stormscope, Garmin transponder, Digital tach, electric trim, Digital fuel flow meter"

200HP ~11-12gph
 
Our FBO used to have a Cirrus SR22G2 with all of the bells and whistles that was available to rent on leaseback. We priced it at $300/wet. It had really restrictive rental requirements due to insurance (basically our "cirrus" instructor had to accompany ever flight). Needless to say, it rarely flew and the owner/FBO lost a lot of $$$.

Rumor has it that an FBO somewhat near us (100nm away) has a Cessna 400 for rent in the $250-300 range because they couldn't sell it.

I see the same problem with this. Around here I do not see it renting out at the $300/hour rate. One of the options would be to offer it in a higher end instrument training program where pilots come in for 2-3 weeks of training. At the speeds it can fly we could make it to some places for unusual approaches- San Diego, Phoenix, Dallas as well as some of the challenging mountain approaches in NM and Colorado could all be done in one day (well, not all of them in one day, but make it to one of these destinations and back in one day). We shall see.
 
Not quite the same model, but here is one idea http://www.wingsofcarolina.org/aircraft.php. You'd have to do some creative marketing. Since the owner also owns a charter operation, has he looked at using it for a lower cost charter? Also, I've found a good insurance company that lets me rent out a taildragger solo for a reasonable premium, pm me if you want their info.
 
Not quite the same model, but here is one idea http://www.wingsofcarolina.org/aircraft.php. You'd have to do some creative marketing. Since the owner also owns a charter operation, has he looked at using it for a lower cost charter? Also, I've found a good insurance company that lets me rent out a taildragger solo for a reasonable premium, pm me if you want their info.

The charter opertion already has a Meridian (one of the owner's other airplanes) so I don't know that it would fit in. Frankly I don't think this guy is really looking to make much money on it.
I don't know that I would want anyone flying my baby solo, but I am interested since my policy is coming due.
 
$300/hr would be wayy to steep. Twins around here rent for $200 and they don't get flown that often.

There is a 300HP Piper Lance for $145hr/wet. Insurance requires 500TT though.
 
Don't take this the wrong way, but a lance is hardly in the same category. Thats like apples to dog doo doo.

Yea but both are 300HP and lance seats 5 + pilot.

Say you have a lance for 150 and a Mooney for 300, which one are you going to pick, people tend to pick the cheaper one.
 
Yea but both are 300HP and lance seats 5 + pilot.

Say you have a lance for 150 and a Mooney for 300, which one are you going to pick, people tend to pick the cheaper one.


If I am taking a trip, I'd pick the Mooney. The cost break down usually favors the faster airplane.

example: C172 rents for $109 an hr, C182RG rents for $166 an hour. On a trip from southern CA to Lake Havasue (<--- I know I effed up the spelling), the 182 was the same cost, but took almost an hour less time in the air. I don't know the what the Lance will cruise at, but the M20S will do 180 TAS. spread that out over a few hours, and the distance/time equation will favor the Mooney. But for just going out to tool around, I'll take the cheaper of the two every time.

You'd have to market the Mooney as a trip airplane. Sell it because of the speed. Include a 10hr ground school on how to operate it properly, followed by a 10hr check out in the plane, and you could probably work it out with insurance. I'd bet you could probably market it for around $225 to $275 per hour, and still make a profit. Especially if it's paid for
 
I have no idea why anyone would pay these kinds of rates for a single engine aircraft. If you're going to pay over $200 for a high performance aircraft that requires you to have an instructor on board all the time then you may as well rent a Cessna 310 or Baron or some other older twin for about the same amount of money.
 
I have no idea why anyone would pay these kinds of rates for a single engine aircraft.

I can think of two reasons. #1, because you can (i.e. you crap money). #2, you have no desire to go beyond the PPLSE rating, and have no desire in aircraft ownership. I know a few people at my school that rent a Super Decathalon a few times a week, and a 182RG a few times a week. They do it becuase when they are done with the planes, they bring it back to us, and don't have to worry about any thing else than paying one bill. No registration to worry about, no annual, no engine overhaul, etc. There is a lo t that goes into aircraft ownership. And for some, they'd rather pay more than deal with that "headache."
 
Back
Top