Reno tower taking a cat nap

Bernoulli Fan said:
I believe many facilities used to operate this way, but some study found that this was actually worse. A person's circadian rhythm would finally adapt to the schedule at the end of the week, then the schedule would change again.
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well then, why not do shifts based on seniority and just don't rotate unless one of the senior guys bids a different shift?
 
That can cause a pretty big problem with proficiency for someone who only works mids for a month or 6 week period, then gets bid down to a busy day shift. Talk to a handful of planes a night for long periods of time does not an effective controller make.
 
dasleben said:
I'm certainly not saying flight time/duty rules don't need to be changed. They absolutely do. However, I constantly run into guys who rage about fatigue when they're flying in the middle of the day on 10-12 hours of duty, crossing 2 time zones. I'm not saying that I'm some long-haul master or anything, but something I've learned the past couple months of really whacked out schedules is that your body is capable of handling more than you think without completely shutting down. Again, not saying it's right or that it doesn't need to be changed...just stating the truth.
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It is different with everyone. The culture of studtastic pilot needs to change for sure and while you may think you can handle a lot NASA has proven that you may even think your awake but micro napping all the while.

The duty laws are pathetic but what really needs to change is the thought of I can hack it needs to change to maybe I am a risk factor.
 
A150K said:
ZOMGZ HE LANDED HIMSELF!!!!! USER FEES!!!!! BUT I DON'T WANT TO PAY FOR ANOTHER CONTROLLER TO BE IN THE CAB WITH HIM ZOMGZ



"This is the 3rd incident this year, it's time to privatize air traffic control. I have no faith in the government or its employees"



Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/news/artic...ir-controller-falls-asleep.html#ixzz1JRHsxidu​

Yeah, because private employees never fall asleep on the job....:whatever:
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Yeah, and privatized ATC has a perfect safety record!
 
Roger said:
wouldn't it be easier on the controllers to just have them do, say, a whole week of mids instead of 8 on, 8 off, 8 on, etc? While working overnight sucks the big one no matter how you swing it ( been there done that and probably will again) at least there would be a consistent sleep schedule. Changing someone's day/night rhythm multiple times in a week seems kind of asinine especially when there's not really any reason for it-at least not that I see. Maybe someone can point out why they are scheduled that way.
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You would lose proficiency by working straight mids unless you were somewhere like MEM...
 
I woke up once somewhere over Ohio at 230 with the autopilot happily flying me to BWI. Opened my eyes, contacts were stuck to them, so the overhead that I was staring at while drooling took on an unearthly glow. I thought I'd been abducted, was just waiting for the anal probe. Luckily it was the middle of the night and when I asked Cleveland if they were still there, the dude just responded rather laconically that it was "kind of dead tonight". Point? It never happened again. I will positively beat myself awake...I've left marks. Now, with that said, obviously the duty regs are absurd, probably even more so for controllers. But it is possible not to sleep...pain is a fantastic anti-soporific. As is doing fifty quick pushups in the forward cabin. Or so I've heard.

PS. Did I say "I"? I meant "I know this guy..."
 
I've only been truly fatigued once. After I landed and gotten the plane unloaded, I couldn't add up the times....with a calculator. After attempting for a good thirty minutes, I finally called dispatch and told them I wasn't able to make the part 91 leg back to base and needed a hotel. This was back when I was flying ad hoc.
 
Randy Babbitt said:
Over the last few weeks we have seen examples of unprofessional conduct on the part of a few individuals that have rightly caused the traveling public to question our ability to ensure their safety. This conduct must stop immediately. I am committed to maintaining the highest level of public confidence and that begins with strong leadership.

This morning I met with the head of our Air Traffic Organization, the part of the Federal Aviation Administration charged with operating our air traffic control system. Hank Krakowski has submitted his resignation and I have accepted it. Hank is a dedicated aviation professional and I thank him for his service. Starting today, I have asked David Grizzle, FAA's chief counsel, to assume the role of acting ATO chief operating officer while we conduct a nationwide search to permanently fill the position.

We are conducting a top to bottom review of the way we operate our air traffic control system. We are all responsible and accountable for safety–from senior FAA leadership to the controller in the tower. Employees at the FAA work diligently every day to run the safest air transportation system in the world. But I will continue to make whatever changes are necessary to ensure we concentrate on keeping the traveling public safe.
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Interesting...
 
TripSix said:
The last three days of a work week are something like this: 2PM - 10 PM, 7AM - 3PM, 11PM (same day) to 7 AM - the mid. Every week. Throw in a few kids, a dog, what have you and we all know that those 8/9 hours off between shifts aren't spent sleeping.
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Thats nuts. You can say what you want about staying awake but when you have a schedule like that and your heart rate is at a brisk 50 bpm at 3am, your gunna be dozing. I've done plenty of 24 hour shifts and the bottom line is some people can do it and some can't. That schedule is a nightmare and I can see why so many controllers end up falling asleep.
 
I have to say I have been thoroughly impressed with the measured responses I've seen from both community members here and the general public. I was expecting an overall "hang the bastards" mentality. With the exception of higher ups at the FAA, and of course some media, everyone's taking more of a concerned approach. Obviously, folks shouldn't be falling asleep, but it's refreshing to see that the reaction to this news is one of "why is this happening, and what can we do to change this" instead of "fire the lazy idiots."

I'm just really impressed with that.
 
Bernoulli Fan said:
I believe many facilities used to operate this way, but some study found that this was actually worse. A person's circadian rhythm would finally adapt to the schedule at the end of the week, then the schedule would change again.
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FM_Weasel said:
That can cause a pretty big problem with proficiency for someone who only works mids for a month or 6 week period, then gets bid down to a busy day shift. Talk to a handful of planes a night for long periods of time does not an effective controller make.
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RobertB said:
You would lose proficiency by working straight mids unless you were somewhere like MEM...
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Well, what do you propose then? It seems asinine to have TWO controllers on duty when there is so little traffic that guys are falling asleep. Maybe we should just close some of these towers overnight when there is nothing going on.
 
Roger said:
Well, what do you propose then? It seems asinine to have TWO controllers on duty when there is so little traffic that guys are falling asleep. Maybe we should just close some of these towers overnight when there is nothing going on.
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I believe the FAA has agreements with certain municipalities to provide 24hr ATC service.
 
boondr said:
I believe the FAA has agreements with certain municipalities to provide 24hr ATC service.
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In that case, my question still stands. What shift setup do you guys think would be better? As I said, putting a second guy in the tower when there's not enough work for one guy is ridiculous and a waste of money, the Comair crash notwithstanding-anyone who blames that one on the fact that there was only one controller in the tower is an idiot, IMHO.
 
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