Regionals vs. Majors

Mark815 said:
I can't believe people are saying that $60k/yr means you're in the poor house. Yeah, $200k is obviously greater than $60k, but don't make it sounds like $60k is chump change. Median income in the US is aprox $50k. Senior guys at my last shop were pulling in $60-$70k and were doing just fine while raising a family. No they might not have the big Captain house, the newest boat or fly around in their own personal airplanes on the weekend, but they weren't poor by any stretch.

With that said, I understand the negative attitude towards being a career RJ pilot. That really shouldn't be anybody's goal with the current state of the industry.
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60k means you have roughly no extra money if you have a family. It means you're probably living paycheck to paycheck with a family in an expensive area of the country. It means you're not putting a penny into retirement and no low level aviation jobs has any meaningful retirement especially if you don't contribute.
Also the median income is lower than it was 20 years ago. There is no reason you have to put up with that.
 
Beep said:
Actually, $60,000 a year is chump change. There is no good reason why we should make the personal sacrifices in our lives that we have to make as pilots and accept low pay for it just because the pay doesn't suck as bad as the " median US income ".
Airplanes are expensive to own, maintain, and operate, why should the pilots be expected to subsidize air travel for the general public and luxury travel market? Think of it this way... parts suppliers get theirs, fuel suppliers get theirs, insurance companies get theirs, MX suppliers get theirs, etc...
It's not personal, it's just business
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z987k said:
60k means you have roughly no extra money if you have a family. It means you're probably living paycheck to paycheck with a family in an expensive area of the country. It means you're not putting a penny into retirement and no low level aviation jobs has any meaningful retirement especially if you don't contribute.
Also the median income is lower than it was 20 years ago. There is no reason you have to put up with that.
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Beep, you're right that we shouldn't have to make these personal sacrifices, but we do. We do because the industry is a screwy place. I took a little over a 60% pay cut, and huge QOL cut to come to a regional. Even though I'll be off first year pay soon it still won't make anything up in the second year since I've lost so much income. There's no "breaking even". Not until I move onto something bigger and better. I didn't want to do it, but I did, because the industry isn't going to change any time soon. I hope that in 5, 10, 20+yrs time it will have been worth it. I think it was Hacker that said it best a few pages back; take a short period of discomfort now in order to earn more for the future.

And as far as this whole $60k thing, I'm speaking on the generality that people are saying $60k/yr is hard to live on, and that it's not a lot of money. If you guys want to say that at $60k yr you have no extra money with a family, than I'll just make a blanket statement too. If by the time you decided to have a family you realize $60k isn't enough, than you did some piss poor financial planning. There's plenty of American households who make less than median who are not living paycheck to paycheck. I know. I came from one of them. We were not living a glamorous life of private planes and high end luxuries, but we were comfortable and happy.

And for the record, I never said one should accept the median as okay, or enough. I'm hoping to someday reach that magic 6 figure salary. My disagreement is with the fact that it sounds like unless you're making major airline money, you're in the poor house. Just simply isn't true.
 
Mark815 said:
Beep, you're right that we shouldn't have to make these personal sacrifices, but we do. We do because the industry is a screwy place. I took a little over a 60% pay cut, and huge QOL cut to come to a regional. Even though I'll be off first year pay soon it still won't make anything up in the second year since I've lost so much income. There's no "breaking even". Not until I move onto something bigger and better. I didn't want to do it, but I did, because the industry isn't going to change any time soon. I hope that in 5, 10, 20+yrs time it will have been worth it. I think it was Hacker that said it best a few pages back; take a short period of discomfort now in order to earn more for the future.

And as far as this whole $60k thing, I'm speaking on the generality that people are saying $60k/yr is hard to live on, and that it's not a lot of money. If you guys want to say that at $60k yr you have no extra money with a family, than I'll just make a blanket statement too. If by the time you decided to have a family you realize $60k isn't enough, than you did some piss poor financial planning. There's plenty of American households who make less than median who are not living paycheck to paycheck. I know. I came from one of them. We were not living a glamorous life of private planes and high end luxuries, but we were comfortable and happy.

And for the record, I never said one should accept the median as okay, or enough. I'm hoping to someday reach that magic 6 figure salary. My disagreement is with the fact that it sounds like unless you're making major airline money, you're in the poor house. Just simply isn't true.
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I'll add to that. I lived in SoCal on less than $60k between two incomes, with a baby. We couldn't save much, but we could live. At $60k, I could live well, save for retirement, and put a little bit away, in SoCal. That includes giving that wench Sallie a chunk of money every month too. If you guys can't do that, in one of the highest cost of living environments in the nation, you honestly need to go back to school, and learn how to manage your money better.

Just to be clear, I'm on board with the low wage thing being discussed. It's deplorable. But for eff's sake, learn some money management. What are you going to do it you get furloughed and are on unemployment for 6 months? A year? Completely deplete your savings? Learn how to live within your means.
 
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Mark815 said:
Beep, you're right that we shouldn't have to make these personal sacrifices, but we do. We do because the industry is a screwy place. I took a little over a 60% pay cut, and huge QOL cut to come to a regional. Even though I'll be off first year pay soon it still won't make anything up in the second year since I've lost so much income. There's no "breaking even". Not until I move onto something bigger and better. I didn't want to do it, but I did, because the industry isn't going to change any time soon. I hope that in 5, 10, 20+yrs time it will have been worth it. I think it was Hacker that said it best a few pages back; take a short period of discomfort now in order to earn more for the future.

And as far as this whole $60k thing, I'm speaking on the generality that people are saying $60k/yr is hard to live on, and that it's not a lot of money. If you guys want to say that at $60k yr you have no extra money with a family, than I'll just make a blanket statement too. If by the time you decided to have a family you realize $60k isn't enough, than you did some piss poor financial planning. There's plenty of American households who make less than median who are not living paycheck to paycheck. I know. I came from one of them. We were not living a glamorous life of private planes and high end luxuries, but we were comfortable and happy.

And for the record, I never said one should accept the median as okay, or enough. I'm hoping to someday reach that magic 6 figure salary. My disagreement is with the fact that it sounds like unless you're making major airline money, you're in the poor house. Just simply isn't true.
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mshunter said:
I'll add to that. I lived in SoCal on less than $60k between two incomes, with a baby. We couldn't save much, but we could live. At $60k, I could live well, save for retirement, and out a little bit away, in SoCal. That includes giving that wench Sallie a chunk of money every month too. If you guys can't do that, in one of the highest cost of living environments in the nation, you honestly need to go back to school, and learn how to manage your money better.

Just to be clear, I'm on board with the low wage thing being discussed. It's deplorable. But for eff's sake, learn some money management. What are you going to do it you get furloughed and are on unemployment for 6 months? A year? Completely deplete your savings? Learn how to live within your means.
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Why are the two of you making the assumption that my family couldn't live on that sum of money?
I did not say that was the case, what I said was that it's an unfortunate reality that a figure like 60k is considered to be a good enough number.

I understand that it goes against the latest advice on how to get to a career airline, but as of now I plan to keep doing what I'm doing and work on making my first part 121 carrier be the one I plan on retiring from ( if I am fortunate enough to do so ).
 
I'll be at $104/hr next month. That's more Benjamins than I know what to do with. I can't even imagine being a CA now making $171/hr. I know a few CAs that are either single or married with no kids, and I always wondered, they better be living like kings LOL. If one doesn't have kids (arguably easily the #1 expense for people in their 20s-40s, just after college debt), then where is all that money going? Hopefully good places.
 
That having been said, I know one CA who's daughter has a serious medical issue and his treasures have been spent trying to get her the medical help/services she needs. Should be okay but it is expensive as hell.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
I'll be at $104/hr next month. That's more Benjamins than I know what to do with. I can't even imagine being a CA now making $171/hr. I know a few CAs that are either single or married with no kids, and I always wondered, they better be living like kings LOL. If one doesn't have kids (arguably easily the #1 expense for people in their 20s-40s, just after college debt), then where is all that money going? Hopefully good places.
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Oh boy, someone brings up not having kids, this thread might go viral.
 
Beep said:
Why are the two of you making the assumption that my family couldn't live on that sum of money?
I did not say that was the case, what I said was that it's an unfortunate reality that a figure like 60k is considered to be a good enough number.

I understand that it goes against the latest advice on how to get to a career airline, but as of now I plan to keep doing what I'm doing and work on making my first part 121 carrier be the one I plan on retiring from ( if I am fortunate enough to do so ).
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I guess you didn't read my whole post. The wages at the bottom are deplorable part? $60k is a livable wage. Even in the highest COL parts of the country if you do it right.
 
Bought my house in 2000 for $145000 in SoCal, it's now worth X2.5 what I paid for it. My house payment is $1111/mo. I have $189.00 in credit card debt and no car payments. I still wouldn't subject myself to those low wages simply based on pride. And I want to enjoy retirement, chances are it won't be here.
 
knot4u said:
Bought my house in 2000 for $145000 in SoCal, it's now worth X2.5 what I paid for it. My house payment is $1111/mo. I have $189.00 in credit card debt and no car payments. I still wouldn't subject myself to those low wages simply based on pride. And I want to enjoy retirement, chances are it won't be here.
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As soon as my kids ate old enough, Im'a bounce outta this hole as quick as I can. It's not the same place it was even 10 years ago.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
I'll be at $104/hr next month. That's more Benjamins than I know what to do with. I can't even imagine being a CA now making $171/hr. I know a few CAs that are either single or married with no kids, and I always wondered, they better be living like kings LOL. If one doesn't have kids (arguably easily the #1 expense for people in their 20s-40s, just after college debt), then where is all that money going? Hopefully good places.
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Eating and drinking out is expensive. That stuff adds up and people don't realize it.
 
Chief Captain said:
You're happy making 60k as a Captain? That's more in line with what a 2nd yr FO should get in my opinion. I know RJ FO's who make that. Lots of OT though.

60k doesn't get you very far in a major city either. I'm not talking about nyc or sfo. If you live in Miami or Denver, 60k doesn't get you very far.
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Maybe I'm biased because I never made that much, and I'm single and no kids, but it's decent wage in my opinion. More is better, but I would rather have
comfort and being based near home. Also I'm not of the mindset that the male has to be the main provider of the family. 60 grand and single it's decent.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
I'll be at $104/hr next month. That's more Benjamins than I know what to do with. I can't even imagine being a CA now making $171/hr. I know a few CAs that are either single or married with no kids, and I always wondered, they better be living like kings LOL. If one doesn't have kids (arguably easily the #1 expense for people in their 20s-40s, just after college debt), then where is all that money going? Hopefully good places.
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If you're married, they'll find a way to spend the increase. Don't worry about it because you'll never taste that sweet, sweet myrrh.
 
Mark815 said:
Beep, you're right that we shouldn't have to make these personal sacrifices, but we do. We do because the industry is a screwy place. I took a little over a 60% pay cut, and huge QOL cut to come to a regional. Even though I'll be off first year pay soon it still won't make anything up in the second year since I've lost so much income. There's no "breaking even". Not until I move onto something bigger and better. I didn't want to do it, but I did, because the industry isn't going to change any time soon. I hope that in 5, 10, 20+yrs time it will have been worth it. I think it was Hacker that said it best a few pages back; take a short period of discomfort now in order to earn more for the future.

And as far as this whole $60k thing, I'm speaking on the generality that people are saying $60k/yr is hard to live on, and that it's not a lot of money. If you guys want to say that at $60k yr you have no extra money with a family, than I'll just make a blanket statement too. If by the time you decided to have a family you realize $60k isn't enough, than you did some piss poor financial planning. There's plenty of American households who make less than median who are not living paycheck to paycheck. I know. I came from one of them. We were not living a glamorous life of private planes and high end luxuries, but we were comfortable and happy.

And for the record, I never said one should accept the median as okay, or enough. I'm hoping to someday reach that magic 6 figure salary. My disagreement is with the fact that it sounds like unless you're making major airline money, you're in the poor house. Just simply isn't true.
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Ya, that's what I grew up with my family making to. In 1995. And my parents have pensions. No college degrees and no special type of work. Electrician and secretary.
I remember when I finally made 40k in this career and was talking to my dad. He laughed. That was what he made when I was born.
Of course you can make it work. I made 20k work for a while. But I don't see why everyone is so eager to accept being on the lowest rung of the middle class bordering on poor. It boggles my mind.
Maybe I should just start a business and pay people nothing. Clearly there's plenty of people that will accept it.
 
z987k said:
Maybe I should just start a business and pay people nothing. Clearly there's plenty of people that will accept it.
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Only if it involves flying. There is something about flying. I will need a psychologist to explain the phenomenon
 
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