Rant: Respect, Military/Civilian

ETAV8R

Well-Known Member
Just wanted to rant a little. It seems the lack of respect people have for one another in the civilian world has carried over to the military just a bit.

Yesterday I took my disabled mother (retired O-5) to LAX Air Force Base to take care of some paperwork and get new vehicle decals. We weren't aware that vehicle decals are no more. When my mother stated that she enjoyed the salute rendered to her the civie woman working at one of the offices who was helping us stated "is a salute that important?". Holy crap are you serious? She served in uniform proudly for 20 years. Her service and rank require it in my book. The lady then said she has 30 years and it doesn't matter to her. We had to bite our tongues as there was no way this fat turd wore a uniform and had any knowledge of military courtesy or what it takes to earn it.

As we were walking out to the car another O-5, whom we stopped to make an inquiry with, was walking outside. He was carrying a bag with his right hand. I guess he could switch hands if he did need to salute someone. Whats going on? Maybe its the AF or LAXAFB. Maybe I'm used to the way it was when I was active duty in the Corps or what I was brought up with and taught when I served.

We talked about it and it seems the lack of respect so prevalent in the civilian world is carrying over to the military. Very sad.
 
It all depends on the base I would say. I found that military medical facilities had the biggest lack of bearing and disipline of any place, regardless of service. I can say that I would routinely carry stuff in my right hand, and switch it over when necessary as it was the natural way to carry things. It isn't only a branch of service issue, you will also find it community specific. But just like the pusification of america, it is starting to move over to the military.
 
This isn't a critic of any branch but....
Being in the Navy you work with members of the Corp and I've always been impressed with their level of military decorum at all ranks.
 
Two Words:

Leader Involvement.


If you don't have leaders that set and maintain standards, then you're going to have that problem. I for one do not accept a lack of military courtesy and I'm sure you didn't. It is an indicator of the discipline of a unit.

I would have said something back. ALWAYS make the correction

Hooah.
 
I spent 8 years working at LAAFB (as a contractor) and they don't call it Hollywood AFB for nothing; all show and no substance. LAAFB is primarily an acquisition command so a lot of people stationed there have not and will not ever see a deployment or an operation firsthand and maybe that's why the seem to lack the military bearing I'm used to seeing from the AF.

I started there 3 months after leaving active duty with the Navy and was shocked at how lax the rules are. Rank? What's that...everyone had a first name. Duty time? Traffic is bad in LA, so my AF counterparts didn't show up until 0900 and left by 1500 so as not to encounter that pesky traffic. I'm at Nellis now and happy to say in my experience, LAAFB is an anomaly.
 
When I went thru Squadron Officers School (back in the day), one of the new Captains in my class was a female officer from Los Angeles AFB. She had delayed entry into the AF in order to get her Master's and PhD in Physics and basicly was promoted to Capt about 6 mo after she came on active duty. So here she was, stationed at LAAFB, with one enlisted guy and about a hundred civilians, and no idea aout military customs, courtisies, etc. We hada little bit of a crash course on how the AF really worked, vs the abberation of LAAFB. Course, she is either a 2 or 3 star general now (seriously).
 
I'm not really sure I understand what happened. What was it that prompted your mother to say she enjoyed being saluted? Was it a random comment, or did she observe somebody not rendering a salute when it was appropriate? Of coure, you mention this lady in the office was a civilian, and thus I don't see how her comments reflect a lack of respect in the military ranks.

As for the other O-5 you saw outdoors, I still don't see what the big deal is that he was carrying something in his right hand so long as he switches hands and salutes when appropriate. Maybe just because I'm a reservist and crew dog, but usually I have way more important things on my mind than to be wrapped around the axle about things that really just don't matter in the grand scheme. (no offense)
 
I'm an Air Force brat and I've never seen or heard anything like this while growing up, or later on while I was in the Army.

My car has a current window sticker from Ft. Campbell, so vehicle stickers are still being used.

As far as the O-5 carrying something in his right hand, that is a no-no and he should know better. Never have anything in your right hand while you are in uniform.
 
I'm an Air Force brat and I've never seen or heard anything like this while growing up, or later on while I was in the Army.

My car has a current window sticker from Ft. Campbell, so vehicle stickers are still being used.

Not quite. http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123065226

Air Force discontinues use of base decals

by Senior Master Sgt. Matt Proietti
Secretary of the Air Force Public Affairs

8/20/2007 - WASHINGTON (AFPN) -- Air Force officials are working with other services to allow its people to enter installations without requiring them to display a base decal on their vehicles.

Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. T. Michael Moseley recently ended use of the sticker, officially called a DD Form 2220, on Air Force installations due to cost, a lack of utility and long-term threats facing bases.
 
Due to costs. . .another spectacular reason I never liked Moseley.

What is cost? When we're fighting "The War on Terror." I didn't think cost mattered.

Ah - glad that portion of my life is behind me.
 
Due to costs. . .another spectacular reason I never liked Moseley.

What is cost? When we're fighting "The War on Terror." I didn't think cost mattered.

Ah - glad that portion of my life is behind me.


Good riddance to the decals; they were a waste of time and money and I'm glad Gen Moseley got rid of them. I could see the point in the days they'd just wave you through the gate, but those days are over and now with 100% ID checks, they're unnecessary IMO.
 
I'm not really sure I understand what happened. What was it that prompted your mother to say she enjoyed being saluted? Was it a random comment, or did she observe somebody not rendering a salute when it was appropriate? Of coure, you mention this lady in the office was a civilian, and thus I don't see how her comments reflect a lack of respect in the military ranks.

The fact that she earned the rank of O-5 and was taught military courtesy. Some turd civilian who has worked around the military for 30 years does not understand why it is important? I want to vommit! It is a sign of leadership and a failure to lead. This was the second time visiting LAAFB where she was upset about the courtesy rendered. I asked two Army enlisted sentries if they normally do not salute officers. When they returned "of course we do" I just about crapped. People do not realize how it reflects on themselves and the branch of service they are associated with.

Phew! On Friday I took my O-5 mother and my daughter to morning colors and the following graduation at MCRD San Diego. We are the few the proud and proud because we carry ourselves in such a way where courtesy is held in high regard and not allowed to slack, well at least not like at LAX. We all know some shaitbird who is a slacker. I even met Gen. McCaffrey. Very nice day.

Anyone can go down on a Friday to the depot and experience the spit and polish Marines are known for. It is always a rewarding experience to see the newest of our Corps graduate. Make a day of it and go visit the USS Midway in SD too.
 
The fact that she earned the rank of O-5 and was taught military courtesy. Some turd civilian who has worked around the military for 30 years does not understand why it is important? I want to vommit! It is a sign of leadership and a failure to lead. This was the second time visiting LAAFB where she was upset about the courtesy rendered. I asked two Army enlisted sentries if they normally do not salute officers. When they returned "of course we do" I just about crapped. People do not realize how it reflects on themselves and the branch of service they are associated with.

Phew! On Friday I took my O-5 mother and my daughter to morning colors and the following graduation at MCRD San Diego. We are the few the proud and proud because we carry ourselves in such a way where courtesy is held in high regard and not allowed to slack, well at least not like at LAX. We all know some shaitbird who is a slacker. I even met Gen. McCaffrey. Very nice day.

Anyone can go down on a Friday to the depot and experience the spit and polish Marines are known for. It is always a rewarding experience to see the newest of our Corps graduate. Make a day of it and go visit the USS Midway in SD too.

I'm sorry; I'm still not quite following what happened. Well, I wasn't there so maybe I don't really have any business commenting. Are you saying that your mom should have been saluted, but wasn't? Who didn't salute her, and what was the situation? Or was she just making a general comment about saluting when the lady gave her the attitude?

All I can gather was that there was a civilian commenting about how she doesn't care about military customs and courtesies (not an excuse for the civilian to provide bad/discourteous service to a customer); I'm just not following how saluting entered the conversation or how that involves "the lack of respect people have for one another in the civilian world has carried over to the military". It's not required for anyone to salute an officer who is 1) wearing civilian clothes and not part of a very select few people such as medal of honor recipients (I assume she was in civilian clothes since she's retired, right?), and 2) indoors, unless you're reporting into a superior officer's office. *Not that a civilian saluting an officer is required in any case. Or were you just upset at her general attitude? (And not that I've ever run into a civilian employee of the government who had an attitude :sarcasm: )

I apologize if the story is staring me right in the face and I just missed it.
 
Maybe its the AF or LAXAFB. Maybe I'm used to the way it was when I was active duty in the Corps or what I was brought up with and taught when I served.
Being in the Air Force is the closest you can get to being a civilian and still qualify for veterans benefits.

[ducks for cover ;) ]

I will say this: respect is a two-way street and I can't tell you how many times I've heard military people berate civilians, "fat turds" or otherwise.
 
Being in the Air Force is the closest you can get to being a civilian and still qualify for veterans benefits.
[ducks for cover ;) ]
I will say this: respect is a two-way street and I can't tell you how many times I've heard military people berate civilians, "fat turds" or otherwise.

No need to duck, I know a lot of what the AF/ANG is about having grown up with both parents involved with the AF/ANG. I always suggest the ANG to young people who share interests in serving their country. Coasties too! Once in a while I meet someone who I feel would be a good Marine and then I suggest the Corps.

I don't mind someone getting benies, she is probably married to someone in the service, therefore she rates.
I would have had more respect for the civie had she had any knowledge and respect for customs/courtesies. Instead her comment to the effect of "why is it important" put me off. I will berate those deserving. I'm not the slim fit Marine I was almost 15 years ago. I consider myself quite out of shape. So I'm a fat civie turd as well. I'm workin on it!
 
We're going to talk about not having stickers on a car so people can be saluted when veterans benefits are being gradually eroded by the congress? How veterans get less and less, have to go to ###### VA hospitals (and they are piss poor, I went with my dad once for his treatment and haven'tbeen back because it makes me too mad), don't really get that much for education and have to put up with constant paper work and changes to get on base and the like? No, we have our priorities all kinds of wrong here. Screw the salute, get her a better hospital, and more retirement pay.
 
We're going to talk about not having stickers on a car so people can be saluted when veterans benefits are being gradually eroded by the congress? How veterans get less and less, have to go to ###### VA hospitals (and they are piss poor, I went with my dad once for his treatment and haven'tbeen back because it makes me too mad), don't really get that much for education and have to put up with constant paper work and changes to get on base and the like? No, we have our priorities all kinds of wrong here. Screw the salute, get her a better hospital, and more retirement pay.

no, this was a rant about a particular incident.
Screw the salute huh?
Yeah you would think after 20 years she would have dental. NOPE!
Trust me I am there about veterans benefits and the need to have them improved. This however has been a constant complaint among servicemen since the founding days of our country.
 
no, this was a rant about a particular incident.
Screw the salute huh?
Yeah you would think after 20 years she would have dental. NOPE!
Trust me I am there about veterans benefits and the need to have them improved. This however has been a constant complaint among servicemen since the founding days of our country.

I would agree with your sentiment, and tend to think that the proper respect should be tendered, that being said, I think there are bigger disrepects being paid to our servicemen/women by congress and the like every time they pass another fouled up bill that sticks it to GIs.
 
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