Ram Air Flight Training

alright maybe its just me but someonen at RAM has something seriously wrong if they're telling you not to do a W/B before flight.

Sec. 91.103 - Preflight action

(b) For any flight, runway lengths at airports of intended use, and the following takeoff and landing distance information:

(1) For civil aircraft for which an approved Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manual containing takeoff and landing distance data is required, the takeoff and landing distance data contained therein; and

(2) For civil aircraft other than those specified in paragraph (b)(1) of this section, other reliable information appropriate to the aircraft, relating to aircraft performance under expected values of airport elevation and runway slope, aircraft gross weight, and wind and temperature.


---so you need to know how much you weigh in order to figure out how much runway your gonna use.


Sec. 91.13 - Careless or reckless operation
---that'd be a pretty easy one to stick you with for not knowing if you were operating within CG limits or overloaded etc...

What do they think is gonna happen if an airplane crashes and its found overweight etc... The company is gonna say "We'll its the pilots fault" "they are the ones that are suppost to make sure the airplanes operated within its limits"

That being said good on you for doing it before you takeoff.

As for carrying squawks YOU ARE THE PIC don't do it if you don't feel comfortable. We had one airplane that was problematic but I rarely flew it and one day it got stuck on my run. During my preflight i found 4 squawks, after those were fixed I found 3 more on taxi/runup. Delayed the departure and got it all fixed. Its not your fault the airplanes broken, its the other pilots fault for not writing it up and the mechanics for not fixing it. Don't let the pressure fall on you. We had one guy squawk a fresh air vent in a 402 at an outstation one day....not an MEL'able item so the planes was grounded. Was it safe? yah was it legal? no. The decisions about where it crosses the line is up to you but I certainly wouldn't be putting any factual info about flying broken airplanes on a public website.

Also if they stick that cherokee back on your run and you don't feel safe flying it DENY THE FLIGHT.

Heres what you need to learn about flying freight
Its the managments job to get the freight to the place no matter what
Its your job to watch your ass, save your bacon, and tell managment NO.

You set the limits, you tell managment what is and isn't going to happen because after all is said and done...do you think RAM is gonna give you 50K to go get a new education after the FAA pulls your ticket?

Now heres a bit of trivia, why do you have to fill out your load manifest in duplicate, what do you need to do with the second copy, why?
 
A lot of good points were raised. For starters, I fully expected to be flying in hard IMC when I applied at Ram Air. Yes that is what they do, and I only do so safely and legally. A couple of days ago I canceled a flight because of icing conditions. We had freezing rain in the area and numerous reports of ice. Nothing you want to fly a Cherokee that is not approved for icing conditions into. Dispatch was not happy, but they respected my decision and had a someone else flying a Baron cover my run.

As far as the magneto issue goes, it might have streightened itself out in the air, then again maybe not. I don't doubt that there are some companies that would have told me to go with a rough running mag. And those are companies that I would not care to work for. I don't have any regrets about my decision not to go that night. Safety is always my first priority. I do things by the book and that has kept me out of trouble so far.

Overpriming the engine in a Cherokee is very easy to do. Plus, those airplanes just don't like to start when the temperature goes below 25 degrees. That particular airplane that had the fire has a long history of problems. The mag problem and engine fire happened in the same airplane. In retrospect, the engine fire probably was partially my fault. I should have had the airplane preheated, and I should have kept cranking the engine. If it doesn't start by the third attempt, it's probably not going to, at least not without a preheat. I have not had problems like that with any other airplane in the fleet. And I have flown almost every single engine plane that Ram Air has.

The experience at Ram Air has been invaluable so far. My instrument skills have improved dramatically in the one month that I have been here. It has been a major adjustment from flight instructing, but overall a good experience. I estimate in another 2 months I should be able to upgrade to the twin. I can't wait to do that. :)
 
sounds like your really learning your stuff.

I was having a conversation with my medcrew the other night and they were telling me about pilots they'd flown with before at other companies who were "freight guys" and they didn't like flying with some of them because of of the chances they took.

I told them that theres two types of people who come out of flying freight. People who go..."well that worked before so lets do it again" and people who say "that could have been done better"

Turning flights down and knowing when to say no and when to go is what being a professional is all about and it looks like your starting to form into a very solid professional.
 
Pilot4500 Thanks for your posts but I'm afraid I am going to have to pass on Ram Air Freight. I dont like the fact that they told you to do something that is illegal and lied to you saying it was. It just doesnt seem like the kind of company I would want to work for and especially sign a contract with. It also doesnt seem like they are very supportive when your decisions are in line with safety instead of getting the work their on time. I'm sure you'll gain valuable experience at Ram (experience that I am passing up) but it also seems like that experience is going to come with great risk attached. Good luck
 
Joecfi said:
Pilot4500 Thanks for your posts but I'm afraid I am going to have to pass on Ram Air Freight. I dont like the fact that they told you to do something that is illegal and lied to you saying it was. It just doesnt seem like the kind of company I would want to work for and especially sign a contract with. It also doesnt seem like they are very supportive when your decisions are in line with safety instead of getting the work their on time. I'm sure you'll gain valuable experience at Ram (experience that I am passing up) but it also seems like that experience is going to come with great risk attached. Good luck
Click to expand...

I flew at Ram Air Freight for about six months. Good experience, yes. The W+B issue that was mentioned above is true. They will harp you for trying to cancel a flight because of T-storms. I've heard, "well it isn't going to get any better, and the checks need to get there tonight!!!" Or my favorite was when I turned my cell off, at an FBO in ILM (because dispatch kept calling telling me to go), getting ready to go ILM-CLT, Level 4 over the field, a plane gets ripped out of its tie down, and dispatch calls the FBO trying to get a hold of me and see why I hadn't left yet? Cause on their computer---the weather had passed. Not to mention that both VOR's on the AC were out of whack. I basically had to take the avg. of Nav 1 + Nav 2 to come up with the course.

Would I do it again? No. Would anyone else hire me when I had 18 hours of multi time? No. There are plenty of respectable freight ops out there folks... I'd stay away from this one.
 
I have to say after reading CaptChris post is starting to stain my impression of RamAir. If anybody else out there has some experience with them please post up.

On a side note, does anybody know of any other freight operators in the Raleigh/Durham area?
 
Pilot 4500 has really shed the light on them. Even when CaptChris was posting about them in earlier threads, if I remember correctly he was very positive about it. But that may be just because he was working there at the time.

But after CaptChris agreed with Pilot 4500, I am starting to have my doubts too.
 
I am sure many aspects are subject to personal opinion. I like that Ram Air will take low multi people, I like the Raleigh base, but safety is something I am not going to budge on.

One note, its evident that if you go to an outstation you will upgrade faster but at the same time does Raleigh still have decent amount of twins to single ratio.

I have a good while before I am in position to seriously consider them. Please keep the discussion going.

Thanks 4500 and Capt Chris!
 
Guys.... I am trying to keep my personal opinions OUT of this post. I first started, I was excited---logging twin time, getting paid, flying freight but here are some FACTS you can draw your own conclusions:
1. Freight dogs.... fly old equipment for the most part. I wrote up an engine for sputtering in flight on several occasions. It was very noticable. The aircraft was grounded right away (because they don't want you writing anything up until you get to RDU or JQF---if you write it up at an outstation and they have to PAY a mechanic to fix it they are not happy). After looking at the engine for about 10 mins Mx wrote "R/R Starter, OPS check OK" (something totally irrelevant). Engine failed a couple flights later on a pilot during his run up at the end of 23L at RDU.

2. I quit at Ramex in July 2006, so it was pretty recent. When I was hired--I was not required to sign a training contract. Now there is a six month training contract for the single engine a/c (Lance, Cherokee 6, etc.) and another 6 month contract for the twins (C-402, Baron, Seneca). Once you sign that contract it is expensive to get out... so make sure that Ramex is a place you want to work.

3. A fuel truck parked in front of my airplane at an FBO---with quite a few corp. guys standing around. I went back in and asked them to move the truck---they weren't moving it until Ram paid the gas bill ~$9,000. So, I had to call Ram on my cell phone, give the dispatcher to the CSR so he could give her the credit card #. Pretty embarassing.

4. I was asked to fly a plane with no brakes to RDU... Dispatch says, "its a long runway, just touch down in the beginning and taxi slow, the plane will fly fine." Lets *SAY* hypothetically, because I'd never do this.... HYPOTHETICALLY I did it---and was asked by ATC to take the next fwd high speed. Responded "unable" and American Eagle had to go around. :)

5. Also was told to fly a plane to RDU with oil leaking in the cockpit (near the handbrake on a Seneca) after a local mechanic checked it out and reccomended to myself and our dispatch not to fly it. Another occasion, I spent about 1.5 hours trying to get a Cherokee started... when I called dispatch the non-pilot dispatcher informed me that I flooded the engine and I need to follow the "flooded engine" checklist. After about 3 hours they finally brought another airplane to pick me up. Three weeks later I was in the FBO and they said "uhh when are you all planning on getting that broken plane out of here?"

6. Fun facts:
-Declared an emergency: 2 times
-Manual gear extension: 2 times
-Avg. MEL per a/c: At one point was three per a/c during my tenure... thats quite a bit for a bunch of single and multi props.

Freight Dawgggggs are known to be good pilots in general. They've got a lot of good experience, a lot of knowlege, and a lot of time on their own. There are a lot of respectable companies out there---Ameriflight, Airnet, Mountain Air Cargo, that offer a mini career path (i.e. props to t-props to jets). And pay well.

Ram Air Freight offers nothing.... $90/day thats about it. Unfortunately they were the only ones that would hire me with 18 hours of multi and 1250 total time. Knowing what I know now... if I'd looked a little harder, I would've ended up at a good company. Good luck to all of you in your quests, but stay smart, stay safe, and remember that good things come to those who wait.
 
Frank_Rizzo said:
I am sure many aspects are subject to personal opinion. I like that Ram Air will take low multi people, I like the Raleigh base, but safety is something I am not going to budge on.

One note, its evident that if you go to an outstation you will upgrade faster but at the same time does Raleigh still have decent amount of twins to single ratio.

I have a good while before I am in position to seriously consider them. Please keep the discussion going.

Thanks 4500 and Capt Chris!
Click to expand...

As far as multi upgrades go, it really just depends where the opening is. There are only three multi runs that leave out of JQF. Although sometimes they will cover a single engine run with a twin if they don't have enough singles available that day. There are a lot more twin runs that leave out of RDU.

Ram Air is a stepping stone to better things, especially for those of us with low multi time. The most important thing is to watch out for yourself, and don't let anyone try to talk you into doing anything that is unsafe. You are the PIC, and whether dispatch likes it or not, they have to respect your decisions.
 
pilot4500 said:
As far as multi upgrades go, it really just depends where the opening is. There are only three multi runs that leave out of JQF. Although sometimes they will cover a single engine run with a twin if they don't have enough singles available that day. There are a lot more twin runs that leave out of RDU.

Ram Air is a stepping stone to better things, especially for those of us with low multi time. The most important thing is to watch out for yourself, and don't let anyone try to talk you into doing anything that is unsafe. You are the PIC, and whether dispatch likes it or not, they have to respect your decisions.
Click to expand...


I couldn't agree more. I believe that one of the runs either out of JQF or CLT is to Norfolk, VA.... sit for like 9-10 hrs, and fly back. Its a 14 hour duty day with 3 hours of flight time as well. Some of the better multi runs are up in Hanover, VA (~4-5 hours of flight time/day and 8 hour duty days), and I think there are a few good ones out of RDU. REX350 is a descent run, short day, lot of flight time, all in the Baron.
 
Well you can jump up and down on RAM all you want, but keep this in mind.

All the "starter" freight companies are like that - they're running on a dime's worth of margin and the checks aren't going to fly themselves.

People go to RAM, get their time, and get out. Then they whine about it. You notice they weren't concerned about it until AFTER they'd got their twin time?

RAM is no better and no worse than an other entry level freight job. There are "career" pilots at RAM, you think if they were risking their lives every day they'd still be there?

Everybody makes their own choices, but don't let the people who don't know anything about the operation and the people who flew there, stayed there to get their time but NOW want to tell you how dangerous it was, to overly influence you.
 
CFIse, I think it is absolutly appropriate for people who fly there now, or who have flown there in the past influence my decision to apply or not. As a matter of fact, I value their opinion much more than I would from someone who only knows people who have flown there. I think that if you are correct and these experiences are typical of all freight companies then two things need to happen. One, I never send a resume to any of them. Two, the FAA steps in and forces them to clean up their act. I can not imagine something more unethical than telling your pilots during training that its legal to do the w+b in the air. Imagine if Pilot4500 got ramped and told the FAA that. I dont think it was anyones intention to come on here and "jump up and down on Ram". I was seriously considering applying to them and desperate to find info about them. These guys did a very nice thing by giving me and others considering RAM honest and useful info we would otherwise not be able to attain.
 
Joecfi said:
CFIse, I think it is absolutly appropriate for people who fly there now, or who have flown there in the past influence my decision to apply or not. As a matter of fact, I value their opinion much more than I would from someone who only knows people who have flown there. I think that if you are correct and these experiences are typical of all freight companies then two things need to happen. One, I never send a resume to any of them. Two, the FAA steps in and forces them to clean up their act. I can not imagine something more unethical than telling your pilots during training that its legal to do the w+b in the air. Imagine if Pilot4500 got ramped and told the FAA that. I dont think it was anyones intention to come on here and "jump up and down on Ram". I was seriously considering applying to them and desperate to find info about them. These guys did a very nice thing by giving me and others considering RAM honest and useful info we would otherwise not be able to attain.
Click to expand...

CFIse was just trying to make the point that although RAM isn't the best company to work for, they arn't exactly a death trap. I've never worked for RAM, but I've worked at RDU for the last year and talked to many RAM pilots. I currently have a little over 100 hours of multi time and that should be enough for the airlines, but if it's not then I'll probably end up at RAM just like 1000's of other pilots have done. Where else are you going to get multi time if your school doesn't have a twin? Not many jobs are going to hire you with 20 hours of multi and I'd rather die at RAM then go to the Gulfstream Academy.

As far as doing the W&B in the air, I'm sure RAM does want you to do it in the air to speed things up, but they arn't letting pilots go for doing it on the ground. They also didn't fire Chris for not taking off out of ILM with the storms. RAM is not the only company that puts pressure on pilots to fly. I saw a part 91 pilot get yelled at in Southern Jet not long ago for wanting to wait for some weather. Being able to say no is part of this job.

Like I said I've never worked for RAM, so I can't give a first hand account, but if I end up needing more multi time for the airlines then I will probably put in my time there and then move on. Good luck to all.
 
Joecfi said:
Pilot4500 Thanks for your posts but I'm afraid I am going to have to pass on Ram Air Freight. I dont like the fact that they told you to do something that is illegal and lied to you saying it was. It just doesnt seem like the kind of company I would want to work for and especially sign a contract with. It also doesnt seem like they are very supportive when your decisions are in line with safety instead of getting the work their on time. I'm sure you'll gain valuable experience at Ram (experience that I am passing up) but it also seems like that experience is going to come with great risk attached. Good luck
Click to expand...

At almost any company, you're going to have people in the loop that don't know what they're talking about. At my company, I've had dispatchers (who aren't REALLY dispatchers) tell me to do things that I can't safely or legally do. This is where common sense comes into play. I tell them no, but I also explain why I can't do it. Will they always like it? No! Their job is NOT to keep you safe and legal - that would be your job. Their job is to move cargo on time. Stand your ground, and you won't have any problems - as long as you are in the right!

I've never flown for RAM, but I've known several people that have.
 
mtsu_av8er said:
At almost any company, you're going to have people in the loop that don't know what they're talking about. At my company, I've had dispatchers (who aren't REALLY dispatchers) tell me to do things that I can't safely or legally do. This is where common sense comes into play. I tell them no, but I also explain why I can't do it. Will they always like it? No! Their job is NOT to keep you safe and legal - that would be your job. Their job is to move cargo on time. Stand your ground, and you won't have any problems - as long as you are in the right!

I've never flown for RAM, but I've known several people that have.
Click to expand...

Well said. That is the main point that I was trying to make with this thread.
 
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