Rafale kills F-22....

SeanD said:
I was watching some documentary on Hulu lastnight called Combat Pilot. It was a BBC series of only 6 episodes that followed a group of pilots through RAF training. They have some nutty traditions. Many involve drinking a lot of booze. They pick the fighter they'll fly after training by taking shots, spinning a wheel with photos of the jets and making a goal with a soccer ball.
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There is fantastic tradition in the US military flying community, but it is being systematically dismantled by the PC police. In less than one generation of military pilots, unfortunately, it will be gone.

Patch%2BWarfare.jpg
 
Hacker15e said:
There is fantastic tradition in the US military flying community, but it is being systematically dismantled by the PC police. In less than one generation of military pilots, unfortunately, it will be gone.

Patch%2BWarfare.jpg
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Really? No more callsigns?
 
SeanD said:
Really? No more callsigns?
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You can have call signs but if it's deemed not to be PC, it will not be placed on an aircraft or a name tag. A few months ago, the Navy brass decided to send folks through squadrons and clean up. My buddy is an FTS (active reserves) and has been a T-45C Goshawk pilot for 5 years straight and had the doors above his desk covered in CQ patches. Each class that goes through can make their own patch. He was told to take down over half of them as they might be considered offensive :rolleyes:
 
Well considering tens of millions of our tax payer dollars are being spent to settle sexual harassment claims in the military, what do y'all expect to happen with the non-PC call signs?
 
bunk22 said:
You can have call signs but if it's deemed not to be PC, it will not be placed on an aircraft or a name tag. A few months ago, the Navy brass decided to send folks through squadrons and clean up. My buddy is an FTS (active reserves) and has been a T-45C Goshawk pilot for 5 years straight and had the doors above his desk covered in CQ patches. Each class that goes through can make their own patch. He was told to take down over half of them as they might be considered offensive :rolleyes:
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Other than curse words, what would be considered not PC?
 
Seggy said:
Well considering tens of millions of our tax payer dollars are being spent to settle sexual harassment claims in the military, what do y'all expect to happen with the non-PC call signs?
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I expect that civilians should not judge the warrior culture that protects them.

I'll give you the PC answer later, but that is what the vast majority of military personnel think.
 
USMCmech said:
I expect that civilians should not judge the warrior culture that protects them.

I'll give you the PC answer later, but that is what the vast majority of military personnel think.
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You can't handle the truth!Son, we live in a world that has walls. And those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago and you curse the Marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives...You don't want the truth. Because deep down, in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall. You need me on that wall.
We use words like honor, code, loyalty...we use these words as the backbone to a life spent defending something. You use 'em as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide, then questions the manner in which I provide it! I'd rather you just said thank you and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you're entitled to!
 
USMCmech said:
I expect that civilians should not judge the warrior culture that protects them.
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Actually, it is my First Amendment right to speak critically of that behavior. Warrior culture? I appreciate the sacrifices made by those in uniform and their families but please if you/they expect differently, well that's part of the problem, our military isn't above the law.

Japan's military rape it's way across the Pacific in the 1930s and 1940s. They would say it was part of their 'warrior culture' at the time. as we know Wlwhat they did was criminal and barbaric, like the few doing it in the US Military, you can't defend that behavior PERIOD.

I'll give you the PC answer later, but that is what the vast majority of military personnel think.
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I hope they don't think that way as they are not above the law.
 
SeanD said:
Other than curse words, what would be considered not PC?
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Drawings, pics, etc that might "offend" someone. Hell, an Indian could offend someone. If someone is offended by a patch, I say get a freaking life, it's a patch or callsign. But that's me :) There are probably some patches that cross the line for sure and the one that comes to mind was a patch designed that said something to the effect "Sandy Hookers" and I would say that was too much. It was denied for good reason.
 
Seggy said:
Actually, it is my First Amendment right to speak critically of that behavior. Warrior culture? I appreciate the sacrifices made by those in uniforms and their families but please if you/they expect differently, well that's part of the problem, our military isn't above the law.
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WTF are you talking about? We are talking about patches and call signs.
 
Seggy said:
Actually, it is my First Amendment right to speak critically of that behavior. Warrior culture? I appreciate the sacrifices made by those in uniforms and their families but please if you/they expect differently, well that's part of the problem, our military isn't above the law.

Japan's military rape it's way across the Pacific in the 1930s and 1940s. They would say it was part of their 'warrior culture' at the time. as we know Wlwhat they did was criminal and barbaric, like the few doing it in the US Military, you can't defend that behavior PERIOD.



I hope they don't think that way as they are not above the law.
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Remember when you told me to STFD I didn't know what I was talking about?

Well, STFD you don't know what you're talking about.

Go put in the blood, sweat, tears, these guys do and then maybe you can talk.
 
bunk22 said:
Drawings, pics, etc that might "offend" someone. Hell, an Indian could offend someone. If someone is offended by a patch, I say get a freaking life, it's a patch or callsign. But that's me :) There are probably some patches that cross the line for sure and the one that comes to mind was a patch designed that said something to the effect "Sandy Hookers" and I would say that was too much. It was denied for good reason.
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Hell, the ANG Vipers here in Tulsa have a giant Indian head on their tails, no although I guess it's not really a charicature like some of the patches I've seen:
2803542763_7bffa6a09f.jpg

Either way, as far as the racialish ones I've seen none are any worse than the Washington Redskins haha. Anyway, I think anything in tradition or that helps boost morale should be allowed as long as it's not directly harming anyone.
 
Seggy said:
That doesn't make it ok for them to break the law James.
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Nobody is talking about breaking the law. Things that are illegal are still illegal, and should be prosecuted as such.

Things that are not illegal, but offend someone, somewhere (like a guy's callsign of "Poker" Hiney) are now being thrown in to the mix as being equal to sexual assault.

We're talking about putting so much focus on "not offending" someone that we are eroding the capability to do what the military exists for: kill people and break things in the name of national political objectives. Warrior culture means trained professionals who have the bravery and fortitude to go kill people to protect the rest of the country that doesn't choose to do so. What is ridiculous is this current expectation that the people that do that adhere to some monk-like behavioral and lifestyle standard.

So, the American public not only wants a warrior who is willing to go commit cold-blooded violence in their name (while risking their own life), and yet also expects them to be non-drinking, non-swearing, non-sexual, eunuch monks when they are not out killing people. The public wants someone to go do violent things that they cannot stomach themselves, and also live to a higher moral standard than they do themselves.
 
Seggy said:
Well considering tens of millions of our tax payer dollars are being spent to settle sexual harassment claims in the military, what do y'all expect to happen with the non-PC call signs?
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Do you really not see the difference between "non-PC" and "sexual harassment"?
 
Seggy said:
Actually, it is my First Amendment right to speak critically of that behavior. Warrior culture? I appreciate the sacrifices made by those in uniform and their families but please if you/they expect differently, well that's part of the problem, our military isn't above the law.

Japan's military rape it's way across the Pacific in the 1930s and 1940s. They would say it was part of their 'warrior culture' at the time. as we know Wlwhat they did was criminal and barbaric, like the few doing it in the US Military, you can't defend that behavior PERIOD.



I hope they don't think that way as they are not above the law.
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Not only are members of the Armed Forces not above the law they are governed by a completely different set of laws called the Uniform Code of Military Justice. They also have to obey local laws, and cultures. So while some one may have a case dismissed under local laws they can still be charged under the UCMJ and go to jail. So yeah, not above the law.

In fact it goes much deeper than that. When I was in Kuwait just after the first Desert Storm we had to get fuel from the Kuwaiti's. They would spill several gallons each time we filled our large diesel tanks. There was this huge stain in the dirt that had to be many feet deep of spilled diesel fuel. We on the other still had to maintain OSHA standards when it came to waste disposal. We recycled waste oil and fuel from our generators. The locals just dumped it on the ground. So next time you're waking through an airport and you see a member in uniform, thank them and go about your day. It's a lot more complicated then you can ever realize.
 
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